Sage Needs More Options to Generate Addersting

[currentlemon]

I know there's already a Sage Suggestion thread, but I want to focus this topic on the job's Addersting mechanic. As you know, Addersting is granted whenever SGE's GCD shield heal is absorbed. While a decent mechanic overall, I think the job could use other mechanics to generate Addersting so that we can use Toxikon more. Note, my SGE is only at level 74, but I still want to post my thoughts on the job's mechanic.

The game's fights are choreographed and we all know that damage output when fighting mobs/bosses is not high or constant enough for SGE's to gain more Addersting.

SE, Yoshi-P, if you really are paying attention to what we are posting on the official forums like you say you are, please hear me, and the other healer mains out. The change for having maxed out Addersting at the start of a fight was a good step forward, so keep it up. Also, please have Toxikon remain as a GCD ability.

As of right now, I can think of three possible ways we can generate more Addersting.

The first is to rework the level 74 ability, Rhizomata. Instead of granting one Addersgall, it instead grants the SGE one Addersting. We generate enough Addersgall, so perhaps reworking this skill to add Addersting instead would great.

- If you want to keep the old Rhizomata, just pull it back somewhere in the lower levels, maybe in the level 60 to 70 range, and then introduce the reworked skill at level 74 with a new name.

The second option is for us to generate Addersting every time a Addersgall spell is used. A fair trade off. Use a healing ability in order to gain a use for Toxikon. This might encourage overhealing and some might consider to be overpowered.

We can find a middle ground. Perhaps an Addersting isn't guaranteed after using an Addersgall spell. Maybe design it so that there's only a certain percentage where you gain an Addersting slot.

- For example, using an Addersgall spell has a 30% to 45% chance it will convert to an Addersting slot on use.

SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

Overall, here is my feedback:

• Rework Rhizomata so that it will gain Addersting instead of Addersgall
• Or gain Addersting after using a Addergall spell
• Or generate Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out

I'm not asking SE to implement all three of these changes at once. Just one or the other. Also, if they can add one more dps skill for SGE, that would be great.

With these changes, I think we can somewhat alleviate some of the Dosis spam that SGE's are currently having at this point. It's not much but it's definitely something. If anyone else has any suggestions, feel free to post them here.

[ty_taurus]

Addersting just needs to be reworked.

As it stands, it's not satisfying in any conceivable way and is an aggressively convoluted way of getting a highly limited amount of ARR/HW Ruin II. Because that's what it is. Ruin II used to be the same potency as your Ruin or Broil and just costed more MP. You had the freedom to use it as needed without losing DPS without feeling obligated to spam it. I have no idea why it was ruined, but that's healer design for you.

Toxikon should not be that, but there are several issues that we run into trying to create an easy solution to the problem. To address your suggestions, you cannot have Toxikon be truly DPS neutral when you can generate it both on and off the GCD. If we boosted it to 660 potency, it would be DPS neutral with E. Diagnosis, but a 330 potency gain to use Rhizomata on cooldown, and you'd want to save your Addersgall for burst windows, ignoring their healing value in some cases because that would help you push out numbers.

Leaving Toxikon on the GCD and leaving methods to generate it on the GCD has the potential to make SGE gameplay more fun and diverse because that helps take you away from Dosis spam which is what all of us want to see from all the healers, but it needs to be obtainable in ways that makes it DPS neutral or a gain, but we also can't just buff the potency because then SGE spams E. Diagnosis instead of Dosis in most occasions, because you get the same amount of damage and healing/shielding for only 100 more MP.

Making E. Diagnosis not a total joke of an ability and allowing it to break up Dosis spam through Toxikon is a great idea, but it needs to work without invalidating Toxikon either, essentially.

[currentlemon]

snip

How about this suggestion? SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

If the dps numbers are too high, then perhaps we can nerf the potencies of either spells (or both) to keep it balanced.

[ty_taurus]

How about this suggestion? SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

If the dps numbers are too high, then perhaps we can nerf the potencies of either spells (or both) to keep it balanced.

If it's gained through E. Dosis, it's not actually a gain unless the potency is increased. It's neutral, but there's no interaction with that system. You just get a charge of Ruin II every 30 seconds because you're keeping DoT uptime on the boss. If it does have higher potency, then it is a gain, but generating Addersting isn't something you do so much as it is something that is a consequential effect of proper DoT management, but also punishes you if you reapply E. Dosis too soon, like the buff is at 0 seconds but is only about to fall off. That could actually get really annoying for a lot of players and would be heavily punishing if Toxikon was in fact a gain. It would make more sense at that point to just generate it automatically like with Addersgall.

[currentlemon]

snip

Would my second option be no good either? Having Addersting generate after using a Addergall spell sounds good on paper, but I know next to nothing when it comes to numbers. If generating Addersting from Addergall spells is too powerful, perhaps it shouldn't be 100% guarantee. Maybe only have a 30-45% chance of Addersting generating after an Addergall spell is used.

[ty_taurus]

Would my second option be no good either? Having Addersting generate after using a Addergall spell sounds good on paper, but I know next to nothing when it comes to numbers. If generating Addersting from Addergall spells is too powerful, perhaps it shouldn't be 100% guarantee. Maybe only have a 30-45% chance of Addersting generating after an Addergall spell is used.

The biggest issue with Addersgall generating Addersting occurs regardless of whether or not the chance is 100% or less. It would be a DPS gain, which would be great on the gameplay feel of Addersting usage, but you'd be heavily incentivized to burn all your Addersting and Rhizomata exclusively for your 2 minute raid buffs. This would result in an excessive amount of overhealing during that time and a depletion of healing resources as well as would erase Rhizomata's current function in favor of being used on cooldown for DPS gains. Even if it's only a chance, you'd still burn all your Addersgall in hopes of generating Addersting during that window.

[currentlemon]

snip

I see. So, I guess it's back to the drawing board then. My opinion hasn't changed regarding the need for more Addersting generation, but my ideas are heavily flawed. I just wish there were more ways we can use Toxikon. It's a really cool ability in my opinion.

[ty_taurus]

I see. So, I guess it's back to the drawing board then. My opinion hasn't changed regarding the need for more Addersting generation, but my ideas are heavily flawed. I just wish there were more ways we can use Toxikon. It's a really cool ability in my opinion.

It's difficult because any time you try to connect DPS and healing tools, it becomes easy to invalidate one side or the other. If it's a DPS loss, like the old Misery for example, then sure it's nice that you get a partial reimbursement, but people will actively try to avoid that resource because DPS is the metric of which we measure healer efficacy with. If it's a DPS gain, then the healing gets ignored in favor of getting as much of the DPS as possible. If it's DPS neutral, then you've just swapped button spam from one button to a new button and doesn't really resolve the issue.

My best suggestion at the moment:

Addersting and Addersgall:
- Consuming Addersgall now grands Adderscoil for 20 seconds. The first cast of E. Diagnosis or E. Prognosis while under the effects of Adderscoil now grants Addersting. You must wait until Adderscoil wears off before another can be applied. This creates a more consistent way of generating Addersting while also putting restriction on your ability to generate Addersting endlessly.
- Addersting is no longer gained when the E. Diagnosis barrier is consumed.

- Toxikon: 330 Potency for the first enemy and 75% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 700 MP and does not consume Addersting. Upgrades into Toxikon II with Addersting (Potency is updated alongside Dosis upgrades.)
- Toxikon II: 660 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 0 MP and consumes 1 Addersting. (Potency is updated alongside Dosis upgrades.)

- Sage Continuation Combo a 4-part combo between two buttons, one GCD, one OGCD.
GCD 1: 330 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 0 MP and consumes 1 Addersting. Enables OGCD 2. Has a 60 second cooldown.
OGCD 2: 330 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Enables GCD 3
GCD 3: 495 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Enables OGCD 4
OGCD 4: 495 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
- It's a shorter continuation that costs 1 Addersting on a cooldown and is a DPS gain - 1650 potency over 3 actions (when including Addersting generation) in contrast to 3 Dosis IIIs for 990 potency.

New GCD: Triggers Kardia and grants Addersting. Has a 60 second cooldown

Overall: The rest of Sage's kit would need to be reorganized slightly to make better room for this new system, but you'd have something much more rewarding and consistent while allowing Sage to retain the unupgraded Toxikon as a mobility tool at the cost of more MP. By filtering Addersting generation through Adderscoil, it's easier to try and prevent overuse of of GCD heals.

[EhvaTaco]

I think, this is a point better reserved for 7.0. The most obvious addition being Enhanced Rhizomata giving one Addersting in addition.

[ty_taurus]

I think, this is a point better reserved for 7.0. The most obvious addition being Enhanced Rhizomata giving one Addersting in addition.

My favorite part about discussing Sage is when I go to great lengths to discuss why Rhizomata should not generate Addersting only for someone to immediately say "Just give Rhizomata Addersting" as if my existence is a figment of my own imagination.