6.1 Samurai: the Kaiten removal was the right choice but it's not enough

[Arkdra]

Kaiten sucked, no great loss, but they should've had something with actual gameplay meat to replace it with before they cut it. So basically, Caprica is right.

Edit: There's no decision making to kaiten and the gauge management is laughable. It was literally don't Shinten unless >30 kenki. That's it. And that's still the case! Nothing changed! You still want to wait until >30 in case you need 10 kenki for a movement skill.

[Stasya]

So it's forbidden to me to have an opinion? I should hide in a closet because if I say what I think about the class I'll be insulted by people who doesn't have the same opinion? Attack my ideas, don't attack me. You act like it's my fault being insulted every two posts because I don't mind the skill from the MMO FFXIV Kaiten being removed.

Sometimes you have to do research and acknowledge that perhaps you are wrong and move on. Instead you created this thread. People pointed out flaws in sam changes before patch was live, maybe people in JP forum can help you finding out where are you wrong?

[Luin]

Let's take it a step further, and remove all the combos and GCDs and cooldowns and just make all the fights a cinematic.

Shinten was not spammed until Kaiten was removed. Kenki only fails because Kaiten is gone. Implying these skills were equally complex is not an opinion, it's wrong.

[Silver-Strider]

So it's forbidden to me to have an opinion? I should hide in a closet because if I say what I think about the class I'll be insulted by people who doesn't have the same opinion? Attack my ideas, don't attack me. You act like it's my fault being insulted every two posts because I don't mind the skill from the MMO FFXIV Kaiten being removed.

You wanted to hear other SAMs opinion on your perspective and the overwhelming majority said it's awful.

You said that, from a gameplay and game design stand point, the skill was worthless because you pressed 1 button before every Iaijutsu and had no gameplay element to it other than job flavor while completely ignoring the fact that it made Kenki Management a thing to begin with. This is the exact same problem that SCH had when SE tried to remove Energy Drain, the class breaks from it. Your initial post came off as presumptuous and ignorant as a result, which is why everyone here was immediately hostile to it.

Having an opinion is fine but when you come to a funeral and say "I'm glad they're dead", you're not exactly going to make many friends, regardless of the reason.

[Velnora]

You wanted to hear other SAMs opinion on your perspective and the overwhelming majority said it's awful.

You said that, from a gameplay and game design stand point, the skill was worthless because you pressed 1 button before every Iaijutsu and had no gameplay element to it other than job flavor while completely ignoring the fact that it made Kenki Management a thing to begin with. This is the exact same problem that SCH had when SE tried to remove Energy Drain, the class breaks from it. Your initial post came off as presumptuous and ignorant as a result, which is why everyone here was immediately hostile to it.

Having an opinion is fine but when you come to a funeral and say "I'm glad they're dead", you're not exactly going to make many friends, regardless of the reason.

Holy false equivalency.

[Flatopia]

Kaiten existed as a reward for proper meter use. If you dumped it all on shintens, then you can't kaiten. It's simple, and yeah you'd get the hang of it really easily, but it felt rewarding.
Over-simplifying jobs for the sake of simplifying is ignoring the fact this is a game, and things are fun.

Take my main, dancer, for example. Why have steps? Why not just have technical step be an 8 second cast that I can move around during? It's pointless, since realistically you just don't mess up steps after a certain skill level.
But I fucking love steps, because they're fun and reward me for planning 8 seconds ahead and remembering I can't use shield samba during that time. It's niche but it's really fun!

This same logic is taken to a logical extreme with just removal of jobs, and having a dps job, a healer job, and a tank job
Healer has two button. "HEAL". HEAL is an instant cast ability that cures for 1000 potency. and "DAMAGE" DAMAGE is an instant case ability that damages enemy for 300 potency.
Really, it's the same, right? Use DAMAGE until you need to HEAL. We just removed the in between fluff and kept the core function.

Tank has three buttons. "KILL" "TANKS STANCE" and "NOT DIE". KILL does 500 potency to target, and it's aoe for dungeons. TANKS STANCE is an instant cast ability with no cost that will immediately put you at the top of aggro. NOT DIE will reduce oncoming damage by 85% for 20 seconds with no cooldown.
We removed all the whole ordeals with rotating cooldowns, and balancing different invulns was not worth it so we just went ahead and consolidated it all into one cooldown.

DPS have one button. "HURT". HURT is a ranged instant cast ability that does 1000 potency. Rotations, combos, and weaves only added as filler to the core experience of hitting the boss and dodging attacks. I mean, realistically, it's what you were doing before but with more button presses, right?

Obviously, this is pedantic as hell, but that's the logical conclusion if the design choices are simplifying for the sake of simplicity. You design around fun, and function is a building block to fun instead of just the only thing to worry about.
Kaiten being removed is the developers looking at only the function of the job, and not if removing it will make it more fun or not. It's short sighted and nearly everyone else hates it because it's less fun.

[SeverianLyonesse]

This same logic is taken to a logical extreme with just removal of jobs, and having a dps job, a healer job, and a tank job
Healer has two button. "HEAL". HEAL is an instant cast ability that cures for 1000 potency. and "DAMAGE" DAMAGE is an instant case ability that damages enemy for 300 potency.
Really, it's the same, right? Use DAMAGE until you need to HEAL. We just removed the in between fluff and kept the core function.

Tank has three buttons. "KILL" "TANKS STANCE" and "NOT DIE". KILL does 500 potency to target, and it's aoe for dungeons. TANKS STANCE is an instant cast ability with no cost that will immediately put you at the top of aggro. NOT DIE will reduce oncoming damage by 85% for 20 seconds with no cooldown.
We removed all the whole ordeals with rotating cooldowns, and balancing different invulns was not worth it so we just went ahead and consolidated it all into one cooldown.

DPS have one button. "HURT". HURT is a ranged instant cast ability that does 1000 potency. Rotations, combos, and weaves only added as filler to the core experience of hitting the boss and dodging attacks. I mean, realistically, it's what you were doing before but with more button presses, right?

Tanks have too many buttons. TANKS STANCE should be a trait of KILL and KILL should be renamed TANK.

Healer has too many buttons. Healers should heal. DAMAGE is going to confuse newer players. Remove it.

Tanks still have too many buttons. Make NOT DIE a trait of TANK.

Healers are still useless. Delete them altogether.

Players still suck at tanking and DPS are impatient. Give DPS bigger butts and delete the Tanks.

No one is playing the game any more except Yoshi P and RPR mains. Since no one else is playing anymore, just reskin all the DPS as BLM.

Reaper mains continue to play the game because virtually nothing has changed for them.

The next ten years. FFXIV: ARPR

[Jirah]

I love how the original post hasn’t had a single star/upvote yet. Not even a spicy take just a dead wrong approach

[CelestiCer]

So it's forbidden to me to have an opinion? / Attack my ideas, don't attack me.

I have not met anyone / nor read anywhere / not in any chat type / any raid parties / any Ex-Farm parties / any discord / any voicecall / any youtuber / any streamer / any SAM main / any SAM enthusiast / any non SAM player that ever complained about Kaiten Pre-6.1 to validate Post 6.1 Kaiten removal.

Face value, your standpoint = " I want to be rewarded? for being more lazy ". SAM, rotation execution with Kaiten is what makes SAM satisfying for many. Yet you pitch agreeing its removal and follow replacing it with -> Nothing, Zero reasonable suggestions.

Here's a metaphor - People enjoying Steak and Fries plate, frustrated that they now get less... And you come over to tell everyone who enjoys it that " the Removal of 10% of the Steak, Fries and Sauce was the correct choice "... and expect everyone who were frustrated with this decision to not look at you weird...

I'll repeat it one more time...

I am genuinely questioning if we even play the same game or class, no offense

[cjbeagle]

Here's a metaphor - People enjoying Steak and Fries plate, frustrated that they now get less... And you come over to tell everyone who enjoys it that " the Removal of 10% of the Steak, Fries and Sauce was the correct choice "

Cooking steak is an obligatory action before every Ieatsteak cast - might as well get rid of that action and just eat it raw. Some say that cooking it first adds flavor, but that's a silly reason to do something even if it's true.