GNB QoL and Balance Suggestions:

[Ryan77k]

Ah, glad to see this thread. Lot of similar thoughts as I was having so it's good to know I'm not alone in my observations after about 200 games of CC.

First thing is to definitely give us the ability to use DnJ on friendly targets as well as enemies. Its frankly silly that they let it go through with the limitations that it has when there are no role restrictions. Sure, there is almost always a WAR in every match anyway but still.

Double Down definitely needs an added effect of some kind to be on par with similar abilities too, not least of all because you have to aim it by movement which isn't always the easiest thing when you're being blasted left right and centre by MCH or WAR displacement effects. Maybe a heavy effect so that you can more reliably chase down with your GF combo and continuation.

Add some kind of sustainability to the 1 2 3 combo as well. Right now Brutal Shell does nothing but damage, but the animation still has the little blob come from the target and into us like it should be healing/shielding. Makes no sense. Besides, GNB needs a bit more sustain or actual tanking abilities built into the core kit and not tied to DnJ. I miss GF combo absorbing HP for each hit. Even if it was returned for half of it's old value it would still go a LONG way to improving our survivability.

As for the LB, it sure is fun in low rank and casual. But in higher tiers it becomes practically worthless due to how long it takes to ramp up in this extreme burst gameplay style. Even going in at full health rarely lets you channel fully before you are obliterated by every DRG, SAM and NIN in every match. I saw a suggestion on the JP server to make it faster, like a 3 sec channel. And I think that's a solid change personally.

[Ixon]

Agreed. I don't even really get the full charge for the LB. I usually spam it to get the stun immediately, as if I don't, I will most likely get CC'd and lose out on the final hit, which is the best thing about it. It's saving grace is that it seemingly has a very low charge time to achieve LB, as I usually get my LB faster than almost anyone else. I would like to keep that without making it too strong and without simply adding anti-CC to the wind up like WAR.

I agree it could use a little sustain outside of DnJ. Let's say you are forced into DPS stance only, you have zero way to shield or heal yourself unlike every other DPS who has at least something defensive like Riddle of Earth, Chiten, Arcane Crest, etc. or even some self healing. Perhaps an added "50% damage as healing" to every cartridge GCD like Gnashing Fang combo GCD's, Burst Strike, and Double Down would help. GNB just needs a little more to be great.

[Ryan77k]

That was a point I was going to bring up actually. When looking at the amount of sustain built into the core kits of melee DPS without any RNG required makes it really silly that GNB has absolutely none unless there is a tank/healer in the match, which isn't ALWAYS a guarantee. So yeah, hope they address that little factoid sooner than later instead of leaving it for months.

[Ixon]

We MIGHT, with heavy emphasis on that MIGHT, see a PVP balance update in 6.11 when they are doing the small update to drop the patch with the new Ultimate. Which is why I wanted to get this out ASAP because if they do that it's less than two weeks away.

[Shirolumi]

I think GNB is pretty okay overall but some things sadden me unless I'm playing wrong. But just comparing it to other jobs, let's look at the toolkit compared to just some other melees. I think the strength is the damage it brings?

I'm counting out the universal skills when looking at these ones.

1. No on-demand heal unless junction which gives 6k heal and regen for 12s BUT you sacrifice damage (Blasting Zone).

WAR has 10 sec heal (amount depending on skill used.)
NIN has 10k heal altho it sacrifices damage.
DRG has 8k with damage tacked on.

Yes, it can be cast on others but most of the time that has barely saved anyone in my experience.


2. No on-demand mitigation unless junction which gives 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds BUT you sacrifice damage (Blasting Zone).

SAM has 50% damage reduction every 30 secs.
DRK has TBN for 8k shield.
NIN has 16k shield altho it sacrifices damage but can also hide to escape.

3. No party support or mitigation except Aurora which I still not a fan of.

4. (The most important imo). No on-demand CC.
PLD has a stun.
SAM has a stun.
NIN has a stun.
WAR has a aoe stun and draw-in/heavy. Every 15 sec.
DRK has a draw-in and bind.

GNB has the LB, but as you have pointed out there may be time where u can't even get to the stun.

Now I know, the playstyles of these jobs differ and there is 100% reasonable that DRG should have a heal when they have skill that make them take more damage for example.

But I think giving GNB some CC would be welcome.

I've noticed that most of the time, I just go for BLASTING ZONE since holding onto Aurora or Nebula rarely has done any difference and it gets us faster kills, same with Gnashing Fang combo since having staggered shields behind attacks feels weaker than just a shield that you can pop. Or I'm just playing it wrong. But with Draw & Junction being on a 30c CD and without targetable allies I feel like it's not really something you can be flexible with on the go either.

However, changing to SAM and rarely having the problems that I have with GNB. And I rarely see any other GNB players too. In the end, I do feel squishier than many dps. So if you guys have any tips that would be welcome.

I propose removing CD on D&J but remove Powder Barrel. Make Burst Strike a separate skill that can stun for 1 sec instead of having it tied to a combo. Make D&J able to target allies.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

GNB has the LB, but as you have pointed out there may be time where u can't even get to the stun.

But I think giving GNB some CC would be welcome.

I propose removing CD on D&J but remove Powder Barrel. Make Burst Strike a separate skill that can stun for 1 sec instead of having it tied to a combo. Make D&J able to target allies.

The Stun being on the CAST of the LB but not lasting for longer than maybe two hits of the vuln would at least provide an opening window that lets you reliably cc and do damage without being stupidly busted, and provide more team utility. As of right now it can just be guarded/sprinted/teleported/ran from, and you have to land that last hit

I think powder barrel feels like trash to use as well. Junction back into my melee combo to then go to continuation just doesn't "Vibe" with me for some reason. I feel like burst strike should be either a long CD charge use or something that doesn't involve being able to live long enough to land 4 hits to use hypervelocity which is a key part of the Draw/Junction Kit. (or maybe add effects to burst strike too? I dunno)

Feels like doing twice the button presses to do a fraction of the things other classes can do by default as opposed to NIN that feels like it takes planning your approach or planning out the offense with your moves based on the scenario. I know GNB isn't a NIN but NIN has doton if you need to defend a point or group up guys with fireball, Raiton stun for 1v1 with bunshin/mug/etc, and can attack at range to keep pressure while it recovers its burst, etc

I feel GNB should be designed similarly, without the range in mind since they're supposed to be defending the point/their team.

I'd really like to have Draw and Junction do a debuff again.

If used on tanks, cause them to take 10% more damage.
If used on healers, cause them to heal others for 10% less.
If used on DPS, cause their damage dealt to be decreased by 10%.

Or even debuff if target, but buff if friendly. ACTUALLY give them the utility they pretend to have by being able to buff a cotank or buff a healer or buff a dps while still granting junction. It'd be interesting to see what kind of shenanigans and decisions could come from that.

[Ixon]

It's kind of funny how a move like Double Down did not get the same treatment as RDM Resolution: 20s, 8k damage, Frontal AoE that either Silences or Binds based off your White or Black Stance. Or how WHM gets a 15sec, 12k nuke.

[ChrisJennings]

So as not to flood the forums with similar posts, I also mourn the fact that GNB's LB is easily-countered, that they lack survivability compared to other tanks, and their overall lack/inexistent CC.

Here's a few suggestions I think would be welcome:
(note, I wouldn't expect them to apply all these changes, if any)

- Give GNB Bow Shock, and have it apply a different kind of CC depending on the role selected with DnJ. E.g bind for DPS, stun for tank, heavy for support. If that would make GNB too strong, you could instead give them Sonic Break and have it fill the same gap.

- Have GNB's limit break also give damage reduction (10-20%) during the channel and for 5 seconds after the channel ends.

- Return GNB's self-healing and barrier to their Brutal Shell for a small (but consistent) option of survivability.

- Give GNB lightning shot, and have it apply stacks of a debuff, where it detonates at maximum stacks (probably 3) to deal bonus damage and apply heavy.

[Shirolumi]

So as not to flood the forums with similar posts, I also mourn the fact that GNB's LB is easily-countered, that they lack survivability compared to other tanks, and their overall lack/inexistent CC.

Here's a few suggestions I think would be welcome:
(note, I wouldn't expect them to apply all these changes, if any)


- Give GNB lightning shot, and have it apply stacks of a debuff, where it detonates at maximum stacks (probably 3) to deal bonus damage and apply heavy.

Oh I miss lightning shot, sometimes I instinctively press that button where it used to be when someone is running away.

[Ryan77k]

Considering WAR has 2 gap closers and a draw in, PLD can attack fairly reliably from range with spells, and DRK has a bind–admittedly slightly harder to use–I don't see why GNB can't get Lightning Shot back, to give us SOMETHING to do at a distance.