ToS and the health of the community

[NeoDivinity]

Hi ,

Often I see posts on reddit and in the forums about discussions in chat dungeons when someone recommend stuff or point mistakes and these are taken as toxic behavior regardless if it was an advice or a demand.

With the passing years the ToS got more and more strict about how to approach other players with advices and recomendations. Nowdays I feel like most players avoid using the party chat in Duty Finder most of the times because they don't want to engage on potential arguments even if it's about simple things like telling the Tank to rotate mitigations better to prevent damage or the DPSs to AoE on pack of mobs.

I understand the goal of making the gaming space a safe space for non experienced gamers, but should it be enforced like it is?

Even in prog groups we don't often see ppl using macros for exemple to remind ppl of mechanics like we used to in ARR and HW, since they're afraid of spam reports or don't bother at all engaging with the party, most of the time expecting you to follow a strict video guide and if failing to do so to get replaced with no warning at all.

These are not problems the I particulary have since I do play with friends most of the time but I got others to try the game and they pointed to me a few times why no one talk in area chat or even dungeons besides in town, despite having a lot of ppl questing in those starting zones. They either get into a FC I'd recommended or get used to never talk at all. Something that when i was starting back in the late ARR patches it wasnt like this, I remember talking a lot in dungeons and pugs even making friends in those.

How do you guys feel about it? Specially now that players can enjoy the MSQ almost at it's entirety solo, having the ToS so strict still necessary? is it healthy for the community in the long run?

Sorry for the long Topic, and for the scuffed english

TL: DR Now with the game allowing players to play the almost the whole MSQ content solo, the TOS being so strict is beneficial or detrimental for the experience between players? Let me know your thoughts.

[Broken_Wind]

no one talk in area chat or even dungeons besides in town, despite having a lot of ppl questing in those starting zones. They either get into a FC I'd recommended or get used to never talk at all. Something that when i was starting back in the late ARR patches it wasnt like this, I remember talking a lot in dungeons and pugs even making friends in those.

No one talks because everyone is in a hurry, or would rather talk in their private circle.

The ToS is fine. Just don't be an ass. If someone responds poorly to advice just shrug your shoulders and let it be.

[Evergrey]

No one talks because everyone is in a hurry, or would rather talk in their private circle.

The ToS is fine. Just don't be an ass. If someone responds poorly to advice just shrug your shoulders and let it be.

Back in ARR when you couldn't wall-to-wall pull and had to use sleep on mobs to not wipe (1 pack of mobs could wipe the group if not careful) people used to talk a lot.
It felt like the good old days when the social aspect of an MMO was still there.
I had many good dungeon runs with people because we all talked, planned and worked as a team.
Today it's the WoW mentality. Get in, do it as fast as possible, get out.
Sure, I am part of that as well so I'm no saint in this regard.
But still, I always have a better dungeon experience when people talk.

The ToS getting more and more stingy imo does hurt the MMO experience.
Ofc there are things people shouldn't say or do, like in every day life.
But that people can't even give suggestions without the risk of perhaps getting punished for it, it's just wrong.
I always say to friends when I talk about FFXIV that it has a really friendly community.
But, I also say that I have never seen a more sensitive/thin skinned community either in an MMO.
Ofc not everyone's like that. It's just my experience.

[dspguy]

No one talks because everyone is in a hurry, or would rather talk in their private circle.

It is a little from column A ↑ but all it takes is one misconstrued comment to get hit with the ban stick.

I keep my PF chatter down to:
Hello.
Good job.

and on occasion:
Nice save.

[Doc_Seraph]

No one talks because everyone is in a hurry, or would rather talk in their private circle.

The ToS is fine. Just don't be an ass. If someone responds poorly to advice just shrug your shoulders and let it be.

I talk kupo and I know they read it kupo even if they don't (and seldom) reply. Sometimes I just have entire conversations with myself in party and at the very end get comms because you know and they know its repeated dungeons so some entertainment is always a + lol kupo <3

[Doozer]

Anyone who says they're afraid to talk is either paranoid or a dick. I've been playing since the start of ARR and although I know I've been reported at least once, I've never been punished for anything I've said. If you just approach people like they're people and not inconveniences to you, you won't get in trouble. If you absolutely must demand someone does something, maybe say "please" first. If people think you're being toxic every time you talk, it's probably because you are. There isn't a mindset throughout the game where simply speaking is assumed to be toxic.

Always assume someone with an outside perspective might see what you're doing or saying. They don't just crush you with the ban hammer as soon as you say "hey guys let's do this strat". Someone has to report it and then a GM will look at it. Will the GM think you're being an ass? Then don't say it.

People weren't any more talkative before any changes to the ToS, and most of the changes were just to clarify things. People just need something to point at when they think their rights are being taken away.

[Vryn]

Anyone who says they're afraid to talk is paranoid or a dick. I've been playing since the start of ARR, and although I know I've been reported at least once, I've never been punished for anything I've said. If you approach people like they're people and do not inconvenience you, you won't get in trouble. If you must demand someone do something, maybe say "please" first. If people think you're being toxic every time you talk, it's probably because you are. Throughout the game, there isn't a mindset where simply speaking is assumed to be toxic.

Always assume someone with an outside perspective might see what you're doing or saying. They don't just crush you with the ban hammer as soon as you say, "Hey guys, let's do this strat". Someone has to report it, and then a GM will look at it. Will the GM think you're being an ass? Then don't say it.

People weren't any more talkative before any changes to the ToS, and most of the changes were to clarify things. People need something to point at when they think their rights are being taken away.

Yes, let's not address people's concerns over a private organisation potentially banning you on the perceived offences of a stranger and instead call them names because you like the fact that Square steps on people and that you don't have to deal with other people in an MMO. Negative social interaction is a consequence of being social, and so is being offensive. You cannot have meaningful dialogue without the risk of offence. As long as the ToS is based around perceived offence, it will have a stifling effect no matter if people are innately nice or not, especially across a game that ranges across a dozen cultures in Europe alone with their own takes on what being nice and offensive are.

16 different personality types. Some are more controversial than others, such as someone just being blunt. That doesn't mean they're toxic. That means you don't like the way they speak and therefore are offended by it. The offence usually has more to do with the perceived standards of the individual taking offence than the person speaking to them unless they are throwing epithets. Also, most toxic players are random people having a bad day, so let's not use extremes to justify virtual hate crime law and the social credit system.

Also, I've been here since 2.0 Beta. They were far more talkative and willing to speak in a dungeon and actually speak their mind in public, just because you may not like what they have to say or find it controversial does not give you the right to ban their speech or use the GM's to enforce your individual sense of right and wrong. Just walk away or block them you where given the in game tools for a reason.

[SnowVix]

16 different personality types. Some are more controversial than others, such as someone just being blunt. That doesn't mean they're toxic. That means you don't like the way they speak and therefore are offended by it. The offence usually has more to do with the perceived standards of the individual taking offence than the person speaking to them unless they are throwing epithets. Also, most toxic players are random people having a bad day, so let's not use extremes to justify virtual hate crime law and the social credit system.

MBTI is hilariously inaccurate and was created by an author with near-zero higher education in regards to psych and who was pretty racist.

[Vryn]

MBTI is hilariously inaccurate and was created by an author with near-zero higher education regarding psych and who was pretty racist.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but Myers and Briggs isnt the only personality test. Most use 16 personality types under four more significant categories to the point that entire fields of business theory are based on it and have proven to be entirely accurate. Nothing is 100%, and no one said it was. Research into personality traits in humans and the groups we categorise them into is very well documented, just because you disagree with a single source doesn't invalidate the entire field.

[Bearded]

There is absolutely nothing wrong in offering to give advice to someone whilst in duty. If the person says that they do not want that advice then that's fine - it's their right.

People can have discussions and opposing points of view and again that's perfectly fine. It all comes down to how things are phrased.

Always offer to give advice - never give the advice without the person accepting that they wish to hear it.