"Button Bloat"

[YukiB]

I think we’re all forgetting something about Samurai Job,

Kaeshi: Higanbana is useless and could have been removed instead of Hissatsu: Kaiten.

Kaeshi: Higanbana also has no effect on either button bloat or action bloat, since it doesn't takes up its own hotkey and it's never used.

[RHarris1349]

…it's never used.

Being my point. Data is data and if they’re having an issue consolidating the answer is right in front of them. Take away the ability that’s not used.

Icon, tooltip, space on multiple screens. They could have deleted it so long ago and no one would’ve cared.

[YukiB]

Being my point. Data is data and if they’re having an issue consolidating the answer is right in front of them. Take away the ability that’s not used.

Icon, tooltip, space on multiple screens. They could have deleted it so long ago and no one would’ve cared.

It doesn't take up any hotkey space. You'd have a point if it did. But it uses the same hotkey as the other Kaeshi skills.

Button bloat = Too many actions that have to be assigned to hotkeys. Kaeshi: Higanbana is not an issue because it doesn't take up a hotkey.

Action bloat = Too many actions that have to be used as part of the rotation. Kaeshi: Higanbana is not an issue because it's not used in the rotation.

Removing Kaeshi: Higanbana will not solve either of the issues SE claims are reasons why they removed Kaiten.

There are more effective solutions, such as combining the buttons for Ikishoken and Ogi Namikiri, having Ikishoten upgrade Shinten/Kyuten to Senei/Guren for one use, increasing the cap on meditation stacks for Shoha, adjusting kenki cost and potency of Shinten, etc.

[Engaru]

Shadowbringers was that sweet spot and right now things just don't feel quite as fun or rewarding as they did.

I think healer mains would like to have a word with you <3

[Jirah]

- Shadowbringers was that sweet spot

I’d agree that the culling occurred truly began with SHB

[EnnCee]

I think black mages have a problem with button bloat. ST seems to be a very awkward rotation and spells fail a lot due to unfortunate timing. to be completely transparent, I only played it up to 50 in ARR and just now picked it back up, and I just don't remember the timing and sequences being so tortured. I'm really hoping it's my failing and that one day that proverbial lightbulb will go off in my head and all will be great with the mage. I just don't know.


I'd really like to have fewer buttons to keep up with, though.

[rewd]

Ask healers how much fun using 1 button for DPS is. That's ignoring that it won't really work for SAM, MNK, DRG, NIN, and WAR because of branching combos. You know, some of the classes that have the most bloat.

There are so many other changes that can be made to fix button bloat that improve gameplay.

You could consolidate a 1-2-3 combo and keep things like Armor Crush on a separate button that resets the basic combo.

The healer equivalence doesn't make much sense. One would assume that DPS have more than a 1-2-3 combo and consolidating combos would clear the way for more buttons and mechanic anyway.

[VentVanitas]

PvP combos will just straight up not work on MNK unless you wanted to somehow lobotomize it even further. To reduce its combos to 3 buttons would mean removing the agency of some of its skills like Twin Snakes/Demolish, ruining the entire point of Form Shift, and just shooting Perfect Balance right in the kneecaps.

[rewd]

PvP combos will just straight up not work on MNK unless you wanted to somehow lobotomize it even further. To reduce its combos to 3 buttons would mean removing the agency of some of its skills like Twin Snakes/Demolish, ruining the entire point of Form Shift, and just shooting Perfect Balance right in the kneecaps.

If you are talking to me, I never mentioned MNK nor do I view its peculiar combo system the same as a basic 1-2-3. What I am saying is that Armor Crush or Storm's Eye wouldn't pose any problem if you were to consolidate combos.

[Silver-Strider]

If you are talking to me, I never mentioned MNK nor do I view its peculiar combo system the same as a basic 1-2-3. What I am saying is that Armor Crush or Storm's Eye wouldn't pose any problem if you were to consolidate combos.

They could just reuse the old animations of removed skills. Tanks used to have a DPS rotation and an Aggro rotation so they could compress the 1-2 branch off actions into a 2nd combo and make the rotation 2 buttons instead of 3-4 buttons. It still cuts button bloat either way