button bloat

[FoxyAreku]

Please dont make this into wow

(Most) of WoW's classes are more complex than the jobs here. With more buttons to boot. I wish they would.

Hate threads like this because they always lead to homogenization and classes becoming even more braindead than they already are.

[Ronduwil]

ToS Legal I believe are:

In-game macros (not ideal but works)
Not certain about keyboards that allow macros..I assume since you are still there at the PC there should not be an issue its not as if you are afk etc.. but I am not certain about this nor would they really have a way to check if you are using a programmable keyboard.

Going off of Yoshi-P's past statements about ACT, I think this is probably against ToS, but they will likely never check for or enforce it. They don't want to get into the business of invading their customers' privacy by scanning our systems for third party hardware/software that violates the ToS. As he put it, where do you draw the line? Do they go after 16-button gaming mice?

As far as in-game macros go, they've deliberately designed the macro system in a way that makes the in-game ones completely worthless for serious fights: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post1520788

The wait time is always in second intervals, and the half second difference between a manually executed rotation and a macro will effectively cut your DPS down by about 33%. If you're just running solo content then go for it, but I wouldn't recommend it for group situations and difficult fights.

[IdowhatIwant]

There are ways to address button bloat, but Yoshi P has show us he obviously does not know how to correctly with such fine examples as High Jump into Mirage Dive, Minuet into Pitch Perfect, and removing Kaiten. The lesser of the two evils is deal with the bloat, make good key binds, and don't put everything on the bar some of that crap you will never press anyways.

The less we let them touch jobs, the better off we are in all honesty.

[Raikai]

If it was just 1-2-3 it would be fine. Nobody is asking for 1-1-1. What we have a problem with is when it is, in reality, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-alt1-alt2-alt-3, etc. Most jobs require 3 full hotbars of buttons. That is neither possible nor fun for me, and that is why I use macros to stack skills.

When I mean 1-1-1 it's the combo itself within the same key, not the same action repeated over and over. There are just as many asking for that as there are ones asking to stay as it is. I just feel that the excuse of that device (that is already used in PVP) dumbing the game down is arguable, given the potential of the vacant buttons to host new actions that would otherwise crowd the hotbars with some jobs.

Probably the only exception to the idea are jobs with branching filler combos like Monk.

Also.. XIV is a MMO with vertical growth. Although it handles much better than WoW does (literally overhauling every class system every xpac), there is gonna be a wall at some point where you need to overhaul a job, even if there's nothing wrong with it, and condensing combos or merging redundant buttons (draw+play) is a way to mitigate that a little bit. Well, unless a job doesn't get anything new other than just visual upgrades, which I assume that people would be dissatisfied with just that.

[Imora]

Most people that complain about it are clickers who never bothered to learn how to keybind.

I'm on a controller but thanks.

[Shirala]

When I mean 1-1-1 it's the combo itself within the same key, not the same action repeated over and over. There are just as many asking for that as there are ones asking to stay as it is. I just feel that the excuse of that device (that is already used in PVP) dumbing the game down is arguable, given the potential of the vacant buttons to host new actions that would otherwise crowd the hotbars with some jobs.

Probably the only exception to the idea are jobs with branching filler combos like Monk.

Also.. XIV is a MMO with vertical growth. Although it handles much better than WoW does (literally overhauling every class system every xpac), there is gonna be a wall at some point where you need to overhaul a job, even if there's nothing wrong with it, and condensing combos or merging redundant buttons (draw+play) is a way to mitigate that a little bit. Well, unless a job doesn't get anything new other than just visual upgrades, which I assume that people would be dissatisfied with just that.

Ah, I understand now, and I agree. There really needs to be an option (I said OPTION, people!) to allow combos to be handled the way they are in PvP.

I play Monk with stacked skill macros. I am obviously far from cutting edge DPS, but I really do enjoy playing the class that way because I am better able to react to what's around me, rather than staring at hotbars.

And to all the folks in this thread who suggested that I "practice more" or get better equipment, I really hope that you never have to deal with a disability.

[SirPawsies]

I think the biggest issues with some of the "button bloat reductions" are how it can be conflicting design within itself to have abilities that behave substantally different to the ones they're linked with: [High] Jump (animation-locking jump action) -> Mirage Dive (ranged attack, can be executed on any condition.) Wanderer's Minuet (45 second Buff that adds an action and interaction) -> Pitch Perfect. (Added oGCD based on stacks that you press with considerable frequency.) Notice, for instance, how now BRD has 2 songs you press and forget and now for the third one you have to keep it close on your hotbar
I'm not really going to include Kaiten in this because as much as I miss Kaiten already, the changes in damage output to Samurai and the way Midare/Oni Namikiri work are substantial enough for me to accept the removal of it.
Even when logically you can make the argument that you can only execute one after the other, it still feels wrong in a sense of feedback for what you're doing. Imagine if Continuation just built up off of Gnashing Fang and the whole 6 actions, GCD and oGCD follow-ups, were all bound to a single button. That's not remotely as interesting feedback-wise as alternating between the both of them as you'd do now.

I think the direction the FF14 team is taking regarding streamlining jobs is getting dangerous, and they should look into regressing some of these changes as they, in my opinion, reduce some of the fun and skill expression that the game allows for

[Nothv13]

Imagine if Continuation just built up off of Gnashing Fang and the whole 6 actions, GCD and oGCD follow-ups, were all bound to a single button. That's not remotely as interesting feedback-wise as alternating between the both of them as you'd do now.

You do know that this is a common macro and a certain mod does exactly this right?

[SirPawsies]

You do know that this is a common macro and a certain mod does exactly this right?

One of those doesn't work very well due to the macro system (intentionally) not queueing actions the same way regular actions do; the other breaks ToS and I personally dislike a lot on the principle of making you play less of the game.

But yeah they exist I guess

[Sqwall]

I don't know about this. When I played Prot Warrior my hotbar consisted quite literally to 6 buttons. This was during Cataclysm also.

Shield Block
Devastate
Revenge
Cleave
Thunder Clap
Shield Slam

Funny thing was...this WAS way more engaging then a 2 min opener rotation. Maybe because in WoW you could literally min-max your % based stats like dodge, block, parry, evade to help proc your skills/talents that added a ton of value to encounters.

Those were the main buttons you hit that generated the most agro, and the job was STILL incredibly complex with fight mechanics, positioning, and resource management.

But then again WoW was WILDLY imbalanced as where this game is literally the opposite of that.

I'm a fan of traiting skills as you level to make new and interesting job mechanics. It may be a tad peace meal like BLM or DRG, but at least your not saying "Where the hell am I going to put that on my already crammed hotbar?"