button bloat

[IdowhatIwant]

Machinist is in dire need of some simplification. It's exhausting to play at full capacity. Look at this full rotation that takes 6minutes to do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CNoAL2do6o
I played MCH in Aglaia and was physically exhausted afterwards.

No, never say this again or we will get gutted again. And the rotation does not take 6 minutes there isn't even a 6 minute rotation in the game, even summoner in 5.0 had a shorter rotation. Stop making things up this is why the game keeps getting bad yall keep giving out fake bs. Keep my jobs name outcha mouth.

[IdowhatIwant]

Have you played it in any content above roulettes? The problem is there is no reward for the effort you put in to play MCH. It has the most busy mechanics and lowest personal dps...and yet you can braindead the mages for more DPS.
The heavensward classes are in need of some help for real. DRK is just...okay. It's not particularly bad or good. Look at how astro was gutted like 3 times.

Have you? Why am I even asking? You said it takes 6 minutes to do the rotation of course you don't, you don't even play MCH. This is why bad changes happen, people that do not know what they are talking about make poor suggestions. MCH is very brain dead it's just high APM because you are double weaving almost every gcd. Is it rewarding? Not really just some dopamine pumps from those direct crit drills. Does it need to be simplified? Outside of the crappy hyper charge / heat blast not really, it is brain dead enough already. DRK is slightly more brain dead than warrior.

Your first post, stated that BLM was extremely simple when as it is currently, it is probably the most complex job we currently have. Most jobs dream of being that engaging and complex. Go back to playing crafters and getting those skills reduced. Leave the real jobs for the adults to discuss.

[Dzian]

Your first post, stated that BLM was extremely simple when as it is currently, it is probably the most complex job we currently have. Most jobs dream of being that engaging and complex. Go back to playing crafters and getting those skills reduced. Leave the real jobs for the adults to discuss.

Just highlighting this. the job with quite probably the least buttons and one of the lowest actions per minute is the most complex and engaging job to play...

just proves more buttons doesn't mean better job.

the problem with many jobs is how many of the buttons are essentially just filler fluff. something a lot of the jobs could learn from honestly.

[caffe_macchiato]

i justed wanted to tell SquareEnix that im happy your guys are working on this. my ideal class has 4-6 buttons for single target rotation, 1-2 for aoe, 1-2 cooldowns and the rest for other stuff like mount, role actions etc.

This is the only video game I’ve seen besides WoW that requires 20+ buttons just to kill something. It’s time for MMOs to break from WoW’s clutches. It’s 20 years old.

Many people love the 1-2-3 system because it provides a false sense of activity. You’re still pressing a static rotation, but your finger is in a slightly different spot. If people want that kind of combat, that’s fine, but many other games do it better.

The alternative is to make an engaging context-dependent combat system. Mechanics are more complicated because your rotation depends on the current state or location of the boss. That is far more complicated to implement, but perhaps we can reach a compromise. PvP has a context-dependent system and it works well. Perhaps PvE mechanics can become faster and require more mobility in exchange for auto-combo abilities?

Change is inconvenient and many people will love to stick to WoW’s system for the next 20 years (let’s make it last for 40). But if you’ve bought any game in 2022, you’d realize that something is missing and 1-2-3 just isn’t cutting it anymore.

[Averax]

snip

I...don't think you've ever played wow if you think it takes over 20 buttons to kill something there. They do more with less because of the 1.5 sec gcd, they have virtually no OGCD attacks. Over there the primary style is resource management, pooling and spending efficiently.

1-2-3 is a product of this game, wow has never done that.

Aside from a few exceptions, you don't have a whole lot of actual rotational buttons over there, a lot of your other buttons end up being utility. Stuns, roots, snares, buffs, non-damage debuffs, interrupts, movement abilities, and the like. I think some of the more rotationally bloated specs i've played have been unholy DK and affliction warlock... oh and holy priest. Holy priest has sooo many buttons.

[Zorvan]

This is the only video game I’ve seen besides WoW that requires 20+ buttons just to kill something. It’s time for MMOs to break from WoW’s clutches. It’s 20 years old.

Many people love the 1-2-3 system because it provides a false sense of activity. You’re still pressing a static rotation, but your finger is in a slightly different spot. If people want that kind of combat, that’s fine, but many other games do it better.

The alternative is to make an engaging context-dependent combat system. Mechanics are more complicated because your rotation depends on the current state or location of the boss. That is far more complicated to implement, but perhaps we can reach a compromise. PvP has a context-dependent system and it works well. Perhaps PvE mechanics can become faster and require more mobility in exchange for auto-combo abilities?

Change is inconvenient and many people will love to stick to WoW’s system for the next 20 years (let’s make it last for 40). But if you’ve bought any game in 2022, you’d realize that something is missing and 1-2-3 just isn’t cutting it anymore.

Everquest and Everquest II would melt your brain then.