ToS and the health of the community

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I don't think "active chatter" in content was ever really a thing, outside the first couple weeks of arr.

I'm on Discord talking to friends in voice chat. That's your difference. Discord is huge now.

[Denji]

Last time I dealt with someone complaining about the tos it turns out the macro they used talked about rezzing someone with their panties in crystal tower.

In fact when it isn't about someone getting in trouble for overly sexual macros it's usually someone who decided to argue with a 23 man alliance over the position of the boss and gets way too heated over just tanking it at the 1 marker and decides to just take everything personally, accuse everyone else of being the douche/troll and ends up in trouble themselves.

The ToS is fine, you guys are just used to games where you can scream slurs and be horny in public chat because there isn't any in-game moderation (coughcoughWoWcoughcough)

[NeoDivinity]

What if they don't want advice? What if they are just having a bad day or made a mistake? What if they aren't looking to be optimal and just want to have fun because it's a game? If they want advice, they can ask for it.
.

I mean if a tank cant hold the aggro or a Healer can't keep the tank alive or keeps dying from basic mechanics is not a question of being optimal.

Roles are called roles because they do have a role to play. But the point isnt in specific dungeon situations, I meant to ask about the perspective of the community towards how players interact or avoid to with others due to as some said, the ToS being used as a method to excuse 'bad' behavior. Since punishment can be very severe.

I do know that rare are the cases where someone is punished for dumb stuff still the fact that is can occur should be a problem itself. All of this in my vision of course.

[Insertusernamehere]

Some people capable of getting offended from friendly advice and ruin your day. (TBH they can be offended by anything depending their mod)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zbEMeATb5g

You can try to be friendly and give advice if you have time for this kind of debate.. It is your choice
I prefer not bother with it and look for a new group.

[Xirean]

Meh, I've been flamed for giving mechanics without asking and I've been flamed for asking if someone wants them instead of just saying them. Never been spoken to by a GM about it.

[Striker44]

I must have an amazing string of luck, then, because most of the DF groups I join have some chatting going on, joking around a bit...

[HisShadowX]

Hi ,

Often I see posts on reddit and in the forums about discussions in chat dungeons when someone recommend stuff or point mistakes and these are taken as toxic behavior regardless if it was an advice or a demand.

With the passing years the ToS got more and more strict about how to approach other players with advices and recomendations. Nowdays I feel like most players avoid using the party chat in Duty Finder most of the times because they don't want to engage on potential arguments even if it's about simple things like telling the Tank to rotate mitigations better to prevent damage or the DPSs to AoE on pack of mobs.

I understand the goal of making the gaming space a safe space for non experienced gamers, but should it be enforced like it is?

Even in prog groups we don't often see ppl using macros for exemple to remind ppl of mechanics like we used to in ARR and HW, since they're afraid of spam reports or don't bother at all engaging with the party, most of the time expecting you to follow a strict video guide and if failing to do so to get replaced with no warning at all.

These are not problems the I particulary have since I do play with friends most of the time but I got others to try the game and they pointed to me a few times why no one talk in area chat or even dungeons besides in town, despite having a lot of ppl questing in those starting zones. They either get into a FC I'd recommended or get used to never talk at all. Something that when i was starting back in the late ARR patches it wasnt like this, I remember talking a lot in dungeons and pugs even making friends in those.

How do you guys feel about it? Specially now that players can enjoy the MSQ almost at it's entirety solo, having the ToS so strict still necessary? is it healthy for the community in the long run?

Sorry for the long Topic, and for the scuffed english

TL: DR Now with the game allowing players to play the almost the whole MSQ content solo, the TOS being so strict is beneficial or detrimental for the experience between players? Let me know your thoughts.

Yes it is and I will keep reporting people who whine about the mechanics even if the raid is running great because often that mechanics whiner is often doing nothing typing instead of helping out with the battle so the only person slowing down the raid is the mechanics whiner.

I couldn't disagree with this more.
If those complaints are valid, that is a different thing. However if those complaints are coming from either misinformation or the idiotic stance of 'my freedom of speech is being violated by a private company' then those complaints aren't valid

Right, they feel as they have the right to attack people in the group and make the group worse off.

Yes, let's not address people's concerns over a private organisation potentially banning you on the perceived offences of a stranger and instead call them names because you like the fact that Square steps on people and that you don't have to deal with other people in an MMO. Negative social interaction is a consequence of being social, and so is being offensive. You cannot have meaningful dialogue without the risk of offence. As long as the ToS is based around perceived offence, it will have a stifling effect no matter if people are innately nice or not, especially across a game that ranges across a dozen cultures in Europe alone with their own takes on what being nice and offensive are.

16 different personality types. Some are more controversial than others, such as someone just being blunt. That doesn't mean they're toxic. That means you don't like the way they speak and therefore are offended by it. The offence usually has more to do with the perceived standards of the individual taking offence than the person speaking to them unless they are throwing epithets. Also, most toxic players are random people having a bad day, so let's not use extremes to justify virtual hate crime law and the social credit system.

Also, I've been here since 2.0 Beta. They were far more talkative and willing to speak in a dungeon and actually speak their mind in public, just because you may not like what they have to say or find it controversial does not give you the right to ban their speech or use the GM's to enforce your individual sense of right and wrong. Just walk away or block them you where given the in game tools for a reason.

Is this why you have a join date of 2022? Sounds like you might have had your account banned for doing what you claim you should have the right to. Hmm

It is hard to tell what is being reported when people say "I report you" or you report someone yourself, and what the GM's actually do. I get why they handle this so secretive, you don't want the people who face consequences to go after the one who reported them etc. I know I've offered plenty of help and talk a lot in chat, make jokes, whatever, and if I ever got reported for it, apparently the GM's decided it was okay what I did because I never heard anything from them.

However, this argumentation in this thread makes my skin scrawl, talking about people being "offended over everything" and "snowflakes" etc. Which is usually the general response to actual concerns or people just asking to be treated like a person and not like chewing gum. Reminds me of the "me too" thing where a lot of dudes were like "I am afraid to talk to a woman now" or "this was just flirting". And when you ask them for details it turned out that what they considered flirting was actually just being annoyingly persistent, pushy or even molesting, and not taking a "no, thanks" for an answer, so very much not flirting or treating people equally. But of course branding everything as snowflake talk makes the life much easier when you don't have to reconsider your own behaviour. (Doesn't surprise me that this forum has a bit of a reputation...) And a big part of the ToS isn't saying much more than "be nice".

Yes of course we have our "You don't pay my sub!" people and "oh my god how dare you telling me I should switch on tank stance" people in this game, but that doesn't mean that everyone would behave that way if you give them advice. If you want to make sure, offer help as "hey, if you like I can explain the mechanics" or when someone says "hi, first time tanking" you can say "feel free to ask if you have any questions", so they know they have the option. Some take it, some don't, but it's not against the ToS and makes people more open for conversation in general. Of course there are cultural differences that may come into play, I heard the tone varies a lot depending on the datacenter. I can only speak from my experiences from the Light DC. But I suppose these cultural differences are fairly well known to the people who live in this culture, so...

Asking someone to turn their tank stance on is not the problem its when they insult the person for not doing so. Or for example lets say we have a new tank in the 20-39 range and its a completely new leaf. The person here is new to the game and bought armor at the NPC Venders the Tank Armor at this point for ARR can require you not to have anything on your feet or head but the stats reflect that. I have seen snob hardcore player ridicule these tanks and I would always block and report them after wards and reassuring the tank hes fine.

Whenever I call someone here someone from the hardcore minority 'new' and they claim they have been playing since 2013 or 2010 its find of funny they have a new Join Date. Hmm seems like banned people are coming back in

[Vryn]

Yes it is and I will keep reporting people who whine about the mechanics even if the raid is running great because often that mechanics whiner is often doing nothing typing instead of helping out with the battle so the only person slowing down the raid is the mechanics whiner.



Right, they feel as they have the right to attack people in the group and make the group worse off.




Is this why you have a join date of 2022? Sounds like you might have had your account banned for doing what you claim you should have the right to. Hmm




Asking someone to turn their tank stance on is not the problem its when they insult the person for not doing so. Or for example lets say we have a new tank in the 20-39 range and its a completely new leaf. The person here is new to the game and bought armor at the NPC Venders the Tank Armor at this point for ARR can require you not to have anything on your feet or head but the stats reflect that. I have seen snob hardcore player ridicule these tanks and I would always block and report them after wards and reassuring the tank hes fine.

Whenever I call someone here someone from the hardcore minority 'new' and they claim they have been playing since 2013 or 2010 its find of funny they have a new Join Date. Hmm seems like banned people are coming back in

A forum date is just the day joined the forums, not the day you joined the game and if you were banned from the game why would that suddenly change the date you joined forums? How does that make sense?

[VictorSpoils]

Ctrl+F
"toxic"
*gasp*