ToS and the health of the community

[Jin-]

I've spoken to plenty of people outside the game who have told me that they refuse to use the in-game chat for this very reason. It's simply not worth the risk. There is definitely no shortage of people who keep quiet out of concern and worry.

This. Even if it's a joke you could be in danger due to snowflakes ruling the online world

[Broken_Wind]

I mean, people dont even have the common courtesy to roll on loot in a leveling dungeon with a sprout that could actually wear it at the time. Or to stick around for 2 seconds and commend someone.
This sort of behavior has nothing to do with ToS and everything to do with rush rush rush mentality. People used to be social because it was fun, not because it was necessary for the dungeon. now being social means the dungeon make take 30 seconds longer. This didnt change because of the 'potential' for being banned if you are an asshat. people changed.

[Banriikku]

The ToS in FF14 is something that will not help because it does not take "the real world" in consideration. It takes critique as a bad thing and put us under general suspicion "you will break it, so we make the rules in a way that will punish harshly. This will result in a better community" and this is just wrong. A good community needs work and dedication and this is missing at the moment. I stopped talking not because of fear of punishment but because people are getting disgusting with their behavior: trolls that trie to trigger people or people that want to be triggered. This is the problem but hey lets make the ToS even more punishing it will sureley help (this is sarcasm).

[NeoDivinity]

i see, i understand the points, overall i just think that enforcing "non toxic" behavior could lead to a point where the interactions between players feels kinda fake sometimes.

I mean making a mistake and being told so is part of learning and learning may be frustrating but it is also rewarding in the long run. In my perspective is not even being afraid to talk in chat is just not wanting to roll the dice and having to deal with someone that knows its being protected by the ToS and refuses to listen even if his gameplay could be affecting the whole group. I mean at the end of the day it is a MMO and you should have to commit even at a minimum level when joining on group content, even if it is a simple Ex Roulette.

[Insertusernamehere]

It is a expected outcome I think. People can "feel offended" almost from anything you do, which leads this kind of TOS.
I don't type in group chat unless they are FC friends I don't type anything in local chat..
If I am not happy in a random group or duty finder I just leave I don't have to explain why. Game allows it with penalty.

[RobynDaBank]

Did one of the recent ZeplaHQ videos inspire this post?

[NeoDivinity]

Did one of the recent ZeplaHQ videos inspire this post?

actually not, there is one? Good to now some content creator is giving this some attention, i'll make sure to look at it ty for the heads up!

What made me think about it was the way they approached the new PvP mode, where you can't play with friends nor communicate with the pug group properly due to possible friction. Turning what could be a fun activity leaving mixed feeling, on one side you don't get yelled nor shit talked, on the other side you also can't coordinate properly, ask or give advice without recurring to discord communities or being experienced enough in competitive games to learn by yourself.

For me it reflects how they try create this safe space for new players but i feel like it just alienates them and move the topics away from the game to discord or private groups.

[hagare]

This is an authoritarian state sir.

[Minali]

It is hard to tell what is being reported when people say "I report you" or you report someone yourself, and what the GM's actually do. I get why they handle this so secretive, you don't want the people who face consequences to go after the one who reported them etc. I know I've offered plenty of help and talk a lot in chat, make jokes, whatever, and if I ever got reported for it, apparently the GM's decided it was okay what I did because I never heard anything from them.

However, this argumentation in this thread makes my skin scrawl, talking about people being "offended over everything" and "snowflakes" etc. Which is usually the general response to actual concerns or people just asking to be treated like a person and not like chewing gum. Reminds me of the "me too" thing where a lot of dudes were like "I am afraid to talk to a woman now" or "this was just flirting". And when you ask them for details it turned out that what they considered flirting was actually just being annoyingly persistent, pushy or even molesting, and not taking a "no, thanks" for an answer, so very much not flirting or treating people equally. But of course branding everything as snowflake talk makes the life much easier when you don't have to reconsider your own behaviour. (Doesn't surprise me that this forum has a bit of a reputation...) And a big part of the ToS isn't saying much more than "be nice".

Yes of course we have our "You don't pay my sub!" people and "oh my god how dare you telling me I should switch on tank stance" people in this game, but that doesn't mean that everyone would behave that way if you give them advice. If you want to make sure, offer help as "hey, if you like I can explain the mechanics" or when someone says "hi, first time tanking" you can say "feel free to ask if you have any questions", so they know they have the option. Some take it, some don't, but it's not against the ToS and makes people more open for conversation in general. Of course there are cultural differences that may come into play, I heard the tone varies a lot depending on the datacenter. I can only speak from my experiences from the Light DC. But I suppose these cultural differences are fairly well known to the people who live in this culture, so...

[TaleraRistain]

snip

This. All of this. There are people on these forums who don't like to ask first because they consider it coddling, but it's amazing how receptive people are to instruction if you let them choose to come to you. I'm a mentor and I wear the crown and I do that all the time. "Hey all! I'm here for questions if you have any but I'm good with blind runs, too." is the type of thing I usually say at the start. Lots of times if we have issues and wipe on a boss, they feel comfortable saying "Can you explain X" and I'm happy to. And if they don't and we still have issues, I just try to be an example of what to do in case they don't have a keyboard to ask. I know there are horror stories on here of 40 minute runs and I don't doubt those happen, but the vast majority of my experiences with new folks is they usually get it on the next try, or maybe it takes a third. There's often one tiny thing they're missing so sometimes you don't even have to fully reveal it, just hint by "Watch this area" or things like that.

Like you said, there's always going to be a bad apple who gets upset no matter what you do. I've gotten "shut up and let's just do this" type of comments before. I just happily add those people to my blacklist and get through the instance in those cases.