Trying to explain why Kaiten was so important (Yet another SAM post)

[Yenrz]

I'm seeing a lot of casuals who are supportive of the Kaiten removal making the same vapid statements about how Kenki didn't mean anything, as it was required to be pressed before every iajutsu anyways. And they reduce the arguments most are making as stuff that only concerns hardcore players (eg. kenki gauge dumb-ification). In this, they're completely missing the point to why Kaiten is so important, to BOTH casuals AND hardcore players.

Let's look at NIN and DNC for a clearer example. The core of NIN is its mudras, and the core of DNC, its dances. They both require quick presses of different buttons in succession in order to successfully cast abilities that are the main part of the damage output. They both punish you if you happen to press the input incorrectly as well. I could claim that simplifying dances/mudras to a single button to be pressed multiple times, or perhaps just a single button press altogether, would improve these jobs by "reducing button bloat", and that mistakes in executing them are "unnecessarily punishing"

Of course noone is making those arguments, because that's insane. Also what NIN and DNC have in their favor to prevent anyone from saying this is that the buttons that are used to execute Mudras/dances require different combinations of the same 3 buttons, or the temporarily buttons replace already existing abilities respectively, therefore they aren't perceived as taking up much space if any at all.

Kaiten's purpose was just as important to making iajutsus the star of SAM's kit. Removing it has pretty much gutted how it feels to cast them. It really does feel like if we were to reduce dances to a single button to press supposed X number of times, or if mudras were just turned individual Jutsu abilities to press. Castbars alone are not enough to make iajutsus feel remotely satisfying to cast. Midares only felt as good as they did because Kaiten was there to make it have any sort of buildup

The whole point of Kaiten was that it was a part of every Midare. Imagine if Cross/Void Reaping was removed altogether and we just had 2 Communios to cast each enshroud window instead. That would be similar to how SAM feels right now. There is no emphasis anymore, no more weight. Just an annoying castbar.

The only counter is that Kaiten took up its own unique slot and doesn't share a keybind with any other actions like Enshroud to Cross/void reaping, or Mudras and Dances. That doesn't change that Kaiten was integral to SAM's burst and was a core part of what made SAM feel like it had anything going for it. It really does feel like if the core of these other jobs were gutted for the sake of "bloat".

You have to press 4 inputs every time for technical step. You have to press Grim Reaping with Void/Cross reaping 2x before every Communio. You have to press Kaiten before every iajutsu. It's not bloat, it's the core of the job.

[CelestiCer]

People mistake the removal of Kaiten simply as " Just one Button ".

Kaiten is a buff that we channeled " oomph ", impact to the core of our kit -> Iaijutsu. Any Midare / Ogi Namikiri / Higanbana DoT / Tenka Goken we cast would not have power behind it without Kaiten, of which requires 20 Kenki resource to juggle at the right time.

Those who don't make the most out of this, are like beginners who flail their swords thinking that does the most impact. And you can get by doing regular content doing this, but that's not learning anything nor rewarding if you finish difficult content through miss-executing your class...


Many SAM mains and enthusiasts will know, that mastering this seemingly easy part of our core is the most satisfying thing about our class. It requires a lot less thinking as many things do once you repeat anything enough with practice, becoming second nature. Compare a physical move in real life where you inhale before you do your action and exhale as you execute it with focus. The fantasy of our class where our hard hitting hits, were charged, prepared, and Executed.

- It was skill expressive
- It was satisfying to cast
- It was rewarding to pull off
- It was what made Samurai fulfilling to play


THAT was taken from us... stolen...robbed... many now say Samurai feels " Empty ", rightfully so. And that's only when we talk about the Aesthetics... I have not even taken the PoV of someone who misses all of this for the big numbers

[xAFROx]

I'm disliking these changes so far. I've only ran a few dungeons, hit a striking dummy and done the new alliance raid. The aoe feels clunky (mostly due to muscle memory) as I have to stand in the middle and risk taking more damage. I've actually resorted to going back to the Hagakure - kyuten spam for aoe instead to be quicker.

I'd just like to say instead of removing gauge abilities, to bring them back.

Bring back Third Eye - Open Eyes. Make Third Eye change into Merciful Eyes and make Shinten turn into Seigan.

Change Guren and Senei so there's a distinction between those and the spam abilities of Kyuten and Shinten (or better yet, make a stat proc to change Kyuten and Shinten into them like my Seigan idea)

Tsubame.... that can stay a separate button. It's on a cooldown that ppl try to time. No different from other jobs I've seen.

Everyone is different when it comes to what they enjoy and I'm one of the idiots that love to face roll my keys, so to speak (console + controller player here) no problems with button bloat and the removal of kaiten doesn't solve this supposed APM problem they cited either. Not when Shinten is being thrown around more to replace it.

Give job resources meaning or else make these special abilities use the MP bar that everyone has.(maybe not so with the casters, but melee has no use for it due to their own resource, but with that getting less and less is all I mean)

[Edweena]

Kaiten was the only thing connecting the two resources together. You had to pay attention to some degree to both of them as you had to balance your kenki spending in preparation for your sen stickers.
Kenki and Sen are now two disparate resources that have no interaction with one another.
Nevermind kenki has been made so redundant by the removal of kaiten that you can literally play without your kenki bar on screen (as I have).
Shoha or Shinten light up? PRESS IT NO QUESTIONS ASKED