I would like to encourage everyone to keep providing the feedback YoshiP asked for.

[Roxus]

I will be making a large reply to conserve my posts.

Also obligatory fuck the devs for gutting trick and making mug another generic 5% damage up buff on a 2 minute cooldown. Our subs go towards the devs paychecks, least they can do is put their two brain cells together and come up with something interesting. If it's not fun, why bother.

Petition to transfer the ninja devs, Sam devs, and the people in charge of healer design for the last 5 years into the cash shop programming department. At least if they screw up there it would mean less money will be spent by us. They can gut the cash shop as gutting is clearly their passion and nothing of value would be lost.

I never saw Mug as a very visually engaging ogcd. I even questioned why it existed for a long time. TBH this is basically similar to how MNK got treated, where the skills are recycled as a placeholder. We can only hope there's something better in store for it. The generalization of buffs is just depressing. Honestly if you go that far it might as well just be removed alltogether. If everyone has it, it's the same as no one having it, why are you adding extra work?

Since you are inviting all jobs, I'll make one more post about brd. Compared to the media tour version the job lost the core part of its rotation. Without double procs, there isn't much to manage in terms of ogcds outside your burst (and the burst is currently too predictable for me personally, though it is nice to see it be busy like that). Mages ballad isn't really more interactive than army's peon in EW and the song flexibility and recoverability isn't great.

In terms of the added abilities, blast arrow is a great addition since it makes the apex gauge have a purpose. On the other hand, radiant finale is just a second battlevoice at the moment and the coda serve no purpose (due to its cooldown and due to the songs cooldown) other than potentially punish deaths (and make burst better after 2 minutes which is a good thing, but it would be great to have it be more nuanced than just that).

Of course changing it to something like the media tour version would probably require some damage nerfs to counterbalance the damage increase from more bloodletters during MB but I think many bard mains during shb or SB would like to see more of the ogcd focus of the job return.

If that's not the direction square wants bard to take, that's fine with me as long as it finds a new core element for the job to do as currently it has lost much of its nuance that made the job interesting and gave it a nice skill ceiling to work towards even if it was for a minor statistically higher dps increase.

I admit that BRD is not something I am really proficient at, but I do hear about it from friends. It's strange how coda works but they remove the way Divination functions. It wasn't exactly the same, but it had a certain difficulty to it. The reduction in ogcd management seems to be a thing they are pushing, which is disappointing. Agree with Mage's ballad point.

It was discovered in a interview with YoshiP for 6.1 that they were doing a lot of the healer testing in-house with developer who had very amateur experience. That and the fact that action bloat seems to elude BLM (the game directors main job) is starting to foster resentment amongst the community in regards to job favouritism.

I don't think it is unfair to speculate that due to FFXIV recently receiving a large influx of players over the last two expansions, that the job design mindset has changed to simplifying jobs so to not lose new players and therefore this new revenue stream. And it is this ignorance that similarly happened in other MMOs that began the fostering of negative feelings towards the development team and whether they were fit for the role, and if they truly have the player's best interests at heart (see Holinka and Ghostcrawler). Ofcourse, this will result in a loss of players.

This is a critical point in time where we should challenge the dev team, in the hopes that they reevaluate their priorities when it comes to their game design philosophy.

Agreed. Ironically, I have seen mobile phone games have better transparency than the MMOs I play.

Divination just doesn't feel unique anymore, now it's another generic raid buff on a 2 minutes cooldown.

Lady and lord of crowns also just feels shit. It doesn't feel impactful, and its just a button i press so my fingers have something to do. I would prefer the shb iteration of Lord and lady instead. I am probably the most casual astro player in existence, but I feel like the shb version of astro was a lot more fun. The effects are cool and flashy, I just wish it had something to back it up.

I agree, and we can only blame one thing for that really.
I play AST sometimes and I can agree with this. This just feels like a skill I press off CD just for the sake of cycling. The card system has definitely seen better days.

I'm not understanding why 5 stacks are given with 15 seconds. If the intention is for alleviating low ping players, why give Delirium 3 stacks with 15 seconds and not blood weapon 5 stacks with 25 seconds? Delirium is far more ping friendly giving 5 seconds per stack while blood weapon is 3 seconds per stack giving a very little window.

Yeah, this doesn't make much sense. With all the push for ease of use, this just tells me there are separate people working on the same issue at different points and creating disconnects between the kits.
The point of BLM fluctuation, yup. There have been talks and graph comparisons showcasing this. As for bloat, yeah that's the pretty unanimous consensus. Although a point being argued is action bloat being different than button bloat, which defines busywork within the job. In that case, the update does nothing, as you press 2 different ogcds in Kaiten's place.

[Bookkeepper]

I made a forum account because of summoner changes. Still patiently waiting for any changes that show the devs are listening to feedback.

[Dxzstar]

Well since we're all airing our grievances here... Let's talk about SMN too. I entered the game right as 5.3 released. Like... The month of I'm sure. and as I started to play I liked smn a lot. I didn't think it had all the same issues others had mainly because most of those issues were issues with ways to optimize your damage to the Nth degree. But I did think it needed some help. Pet responsiveness to be sure.

What irks me about the current iteration of smn is that it seems like the way the devs decided to fix those issues was to rip out the smn kit and replace it with next to nothing in return. It plays like a level 70 job at level 90. And that's being generous. There's no pathways for optimizations other than which summon you bring out and each summon feels the same. At first I tricked myself into believing I could still enjoy it. But then..... I dropped it cold after a month in EW. I don't want to touch it because I really don't want to encourage this method of job change. It's empty, it's boring, and the job doesn't even feel like itself. Right now we have instant golden ruin, casted red ruin, and fast green ruin. No gauge management, no resource generation, practically the same static play at all phases. So, from one of the "newer" players, please fix summoner. More oGCD's would help the job feel alive. Especially if there was more to be done to separate the feel of the summons and allow us more flexibility with them.

Personal grudge note here: More summons is NOT the way to make summoner better. I have heard many people say they feel it would feel better with more summons. NO. While I like the idea of more summons, that's for a phase after smn feels like it's in a better place gameplay wise. Because if those summons are still just the same iteration of colored ruin we're still in the same gameplay loop but with more colors.

[Stasya]

I made a forum account because of summoner changes. Still patiently waiting for any changes that show the devs are listening to feedback.

Sadly since we are not JP forum, our opinions do not matter for developers. Doesn't help that JP for most part is ignored aswell (like sam horrible changes went live)

[ShanaShirayuki]

"Anyway maybe you should shut up and watch how actual change is made": yeah Imma stop you right there, don't give me that nonsense about healer complaints being "badly worded" or whatever.

Roxus already addressed your blatant case of generalization, or you're highly confused.

...dismissively blabbering on.

Yes, you're blabbering indeed. Even Wrex agrees.

Anyways, back on topic. I've done the new Alliance raid with my FC on SAM, and it did not feel great. Today I'll be going in for Savage resets with my static, but I imagine it'll be the same; boring and missing that "oomph" that a 'Pure DPS' should bring with the big numbers. Please SE, fix it before Ultimate drops.

[Chopstix]

- DRK opener does more within the 20s opener, so we should give the cards to DRK from now on

uuuuuuuffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

if this is correct, omegalul... should also hold true for every 2min burst, which is just truly alarming

an important point i think that i have not seen mentioned anywhere, is that this SAM butchery needs to be reverted ASAP, else we risk the new becoming the norm

to put it differently, i joined at tail end of SHB, so only thing ive ever known intimately is how the jobs were functioning since then... 2 button healers and crit/DH warrior e.g.

ive accepted them as okay or good, since ive never known any competing states of the jobs

now SAM on the other hand.... ive never mained it, but it was my go to melee DPS ever since i got it to 80 back in SHB, such an absolute blast to play

and now witnessing this overnight massacre just left me in a state of shock, i can only imagine how more dedicated sam players feel

it may or may not be too late for healers, living dead took 7 years to become viable from what im hearing, but it is sure as hell not too late to get our beloved sam back!

[Laphicet]

snip

So a thread where all are invited to talk is okay for summoners and bard players to come in here and talk. but the minute a healer player comes in they're told to get the fuck out and keep getting harrassed for sharing their viewpoint and pointing out hypocritical behavior regarding how roles are treated. Seems kind of unfair to me.

And they're right, and have been right, it's not that things are disorganized, far from it. In fact I don't recall any other role organizing the community to mass upvote a question during a QnA so it'd have to be answered (only for the question to be outright dismissed and healer players told to "just go play ultimate if you're unhappy with the role"). I also don't recall any other role having a megathread that lasted over an expansion, much less two threads (summary of healer issues & have you quit healing). Closest you have is the DRK megathread but that's only been going since 2021. I also can't think of another role that can readily clarify their points as well as most healer threads do (Boring DPS kit, gear is too samey and ugly, bloated heal kit that we don't get to use enough, classes were gutted, complaints are regularly ignored, all of it boils down to these five issues). I'd say healers are far, FAR more organized than DPS players are, by far, it's just that they lack the numbers and the community representatives to back them, since healer is a niche role that usually gets ignored in the first place.

And since this is a thread where everyone can talk, or you market it as such, I guess I'll make those points once more. Since everyone is welcome, right?
-Healer DPS kits are lacking, it would be nice if we could get DPS kits on par with tanks or lower-level casters so we could have more to do during the huge periods of downtime one gets with even a modicum of skill, plus something to actually do in solo content.
-Healer gear has a problem with being far too samey, the grand majority of it being white priest robes, ugly baggy robes, or extrememly feminine in design both when robes and not robes (the femininity isn't a problem here, its the fact that there's not enough variety). Either add more masculine robe designs and such (Think stuff like Mogh's robe from Elden Ring (see image in spoiler block) or stuff like the Deepshadow healer Gear), or actually give healer a far more diverse selection of gear designs... More Adventurer gear and less priestly or strategist gear, basically... or maybe an actual set of armor that isn't defiled with a frilly tailcoat (I'll never forgive them for butchering Judge Drace's armor).

-Healer kit is too bloated for current content / don't get to heal enough. People often misinterpret this complaint as people saying we want content to be harder as a whole. Rather, we want the kit to match the content better, or most of us do. Either increase the outgoing damage so we actually use the bloated kits to their fullest in most content (bad idea as it raises the skill floor and sqeenix don't wanna do that), give people buff abilities or secondary effects on heals that lend toward support, or go with the first point and expand the DPS kits and slightly decrease the heal kits to compensate. (or just tack the DPS stuff on top, wouldn't hurt too bad with some ability compression / key sharing).
-Classes were gutted, this much is true. A lot of the lore flavor was lost across all three healers, and so was gameplay complexity. Honestly, I think bringing back the lore flavoring is the most important thing to address here. So, basically, bring lore back into the class kits and fix the lore inconsistencies the devs created (in spite of claiming they never wanted to do such and even using such as an excuse to not fix DRK Living dead). Bring back the unique card effects on AST somehow, alter/remove neutral sect so its not lore inconsistent, and bring back Nocturnal sect (maybe make it shift cast speed or front-load the regens or something? It doesn't HAVE to be shields, its just a different sect that focuses on the moon and night stars). Bring the elemental stuff back to White mage so it can stop being a bishop and be an actual white mage again. Bring back the arcanist roots of scholar rather than having it be its own thing, as well as bring back the twin faeries and the whole dual purposes thing mentioned in the quests, also make them more in-depth on the offense front... they were frontline tacticians after all and not just there to look pretty and slap magic bandages on wounds.
-Actually listen to healer complaints. Healer slide was skipped over in the pre-ShB liveletter, and its just been downhill from there. Devs never listen nor seem to give a single iota of care toward healers. And when healers brute force things to draw attention to the role, like the QnA, they get politely told to get lost. Devs need to actually listen to the healer community, same as any other role. I could go a lot more into this point and hypocrisies on the dev side, but it's honestly as simple as they need to actually listen, same as they should for every role.

[Recon1o6]

My heart goes out to the astro

Its already fucked. Its been fucked since Shadowbringers as has Scholar. They took away our cards and time magic. Ast's Kaiten equivalent has been gone for 3 years too many.

They took away Scholars second fairy (imagine if blm lost fire phase) dots, bane and shadowflare.

White mage has been suffering even longer having lost pretty much everything at Stormblood's launch. Every healer was in shock when the pvp designers managed to sneak dps neutral misery into the pve side.

Sage as a dps healer? Pfft. Its got the same 1 dot 1 nuke design as the rest of them. Its 90% scholar but with the old Macrod embrace built in as Kardia.


Imagine you dps players, that all you had to deal damage with for 4 years at the minimum was Blizzard 1, Blizzard 2 and Thunder from level 4 to level 90. Then when you finally get to ask Yoshida that question, you get told to go play ultimate if you want engaging gameplay and the other jobs scorned you constantly for not giving them vercure every time they stood in an aoe.

You'd be filled with spite too.

We've been stating politely for 7 years offered data, megathreads, you name it
And all yoshida does is ignore us.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ealing/page111
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-healer-issues
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...eedback-Thread



Listen dps. We healers agree with you: Kaiten removal is utterly stupid. We support you in getting it back. But ffs support us getting our buttons back and stop treating us like dirt when most of the content doesn't even need us to be around.
The warning and doom mongering some of the healers do is exactly that: warning you that you likely won't get what you want despite the role favouritism and jpn support in your favour


Edit: btw that healer question in the live letter? It was mine. It got the most upvotes here and in jpn forums. Yoshida then proceeded to twist and dismiss it completely and in case you missed it, theres a thread on the general discussion
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-play-Ultimate

[ShanaShirayuki]

...but the minute a healer player comes in they're told to get the fuck out and keep getting harrassed for sharing their viewpoint and pointing out hypocritical behavior regarding how roles are treated. Seems kind of unfair to me.

Context since yourself and your healer compatriot seem to have missed it.

Again, I'm not the one insulting healer mains. You and your friend tried to come in here and boorishly tried to take over the thread with a topic grossly irrelevant and at odds to what we all want;

I'd say healers are far, FAR more organized than DPS players are...

...As you're still trying to do here. But keep trying to paint yourselves as the victims, and work on your reading comprehension while you're at it.

[Kolsykol]

Why does MNK and RPR both have more and more interesting utility than NIN?
60s dmg buff was the unique aspect to NIN, and we used to pay both a DPS tax AND a tax in that we only use Scouting gear and share it with no one.

Mug just gives a bit of Ninki, it's boring and is only 5% extra dmg for 5 more sec which is like two gcd's.
MNK gets Chakra and almost just as good of a dmg buff and RPR gets Plentiful Harvest.... Way more fun and unique...
MNK also gets a healing buff while RPR gets a shield + AoE heal...

All utility that was unique to NIN has now been stripped away in chunks, none of the unique things NIN had are left since past expansions...
NIN is just a worse MNK now that doesn't share gear with anyone, and MNK, RPR and DRG have more interesting and unique party buffs o_o.

Making Mug the party buff and basically the same only less fun than the other buffs was basically the final nail in the coffin of what made NIN unique in this regard and it makes it an even harder pill to swallow to not share gear with anyone.