Best bow for ARC/BRD

[Spider-Dan]

Spider Dan seems to be missing a lot of what I'm trying to explain, but ultimately it's a wasted effort on my end. You are more than welcome to go ahead and test your Spine versus your Ifrit's Bow and make up your own mind. I've made up mine based on my own testing and nobody in my LS, and we all parse every endgame content, has disagreed with the numbers I've been putting out since my switch.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what your claim is.

Is it that best-DPS weapons don't always win in the current system? Given that you've repeatedly stated that you're using one of the best DPS weapons in the game, I don't see how you could possibly prove that with your testing.

Is it that best-DMG weapons always won before? Garuda's didn't exist and there wasn't any ARC-centric content that relied on AA (LS) for the majority of damage output.

You can wait for someone else to do your testing for you and post info, but please don't try to argue against a system while demonstrating a lack of understanding of the details and a lack of personal testing done on the matter.

The difference between you and I is that you claim to be backed by testing, yet steadfastly refuse to post any actual data to back you up. This is not proof of any kind.

[NoctisUmbra]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what your claim is.

Is it that best-DPS weapons don't always win in the current system? Given that you've repeatedly stated that you're using one of the best DPS weapons in the game, I don't see how you could possibly prove that with your testing.

Is it that best-DMG weapons always won before? Garuda's didn't exist and there wasn't any ARC-centric content that relied on AA (LS) for the majority of damage output.


The difference between you and I is that you claim to be backed by testing, yet steadfastly refuse to post any actual data to back you up. This is not proof of any kind.

My point is that some people do in fact produce better numbers with Ifrit's Bow apparently. I've heard enough people with both bows say so to give it fair thought. Also I know how much of a difference I make between the 2 bows and its not a great difference.

That being said, I have no intention of trying to convince you of anything, or anyone else for that matter. In fact I have repeatedly told you to test the 2 bows and make up your own mind. That's what I have done. This debate we're having here is just plain old fun for me in a way lol.

The difference between you and I is that you haven't even so much as suggested that you've compared the Spine versus Ifrit's Bow yourself and come to the conclusion that the Spine wins due to DPS, whereas I have tested the two and come to the conclusion that it does even tho it requires more hands-on.

[Spider-Dan]

Also I know how much of a difference I make between the 2 bows and its not a great difference.

[...]

In fact I have repeatedly told you to test the 2 bows and make up your own mind. That's what I have done.

[...]

The difference between you and I is that you haven't even so much as suggested that you've compared the Spine versus Ifrit's Bow yourself and come to the conclusion that the Spine wins due to DPS, whereas I have tested the two and come to the conclusion that it does even tho it requires more hands-on.

The reason why you don't hear me making claims about which bow does what is because I don't have the data to prove it. And without the data, you're just stating your personal opinion, not substantiated fact.

Also: if your own "testing" shows that Garuda's wins (as you just said)... then what, exactly, are you arguing about? The higher DPS bow wins, exactly as I have been saying.

[Spider-Dan]

A few points you seem to miss.
It is perfectly possible for the highest base damage weapon and highest dps weapon to be the very same weapon. which kind of invalidates your point a little bit.

To exactly the same extent that it also "invalidates" the opposite position (that the current system is fine), sure.

while at present it tends not to be the case with the present selection but it is totally possible for them to be the very same.

...which basically sidesteps the point, from both perspectives. But at the end of the day, higher DPS = better weapon. If the best DPS weapon happens to have the best DMG, great; if not, the best DPS weapon is still best.

With experience between my friends and what ive read of noctis's posts the better weapon between ifrits . garudas seems to be heavily impacted on play style.

Without getting into endless arguments about playstyle, the plain and simple fact is: the closer you get to optimal damage output (read: the less time you spend with unused LS timer), the greater the advantage of Garuda's over Ifrit's. If you are sitting around with unused LS timer for large periods of time, then yeah, I could see how you could win with Ifrit's.

I would also like to mention that for all the same reasons that you mention your parses of Garuda's vs. Ifrit's with your group, I can just as easily cite my own parses of me (using melded Crab+1) vs. everyone else in my group (using Ifrit's) as "proof" that DMG rating was not king, even under the old system. You can't have it both ways; either comparative parses within a group mean something, or they don't.

one other point here is that tp in this game is cumulative and a very different system than it was in xi. in xi for example if you earnt 18tp a hit then it took you 6 hits to get 100% the trouble here is that 6x 18 = 108tp and thus when you pop your ws the 8 tp was lost. in xiv however its less impactfull because tp is cumulative and carries.

That's a fair point, and significantly reduces the impact of "hits to 1000 TP" in this game. Having said that, if you are familiar enough to make that assessment of XI, then surely you agree with my other point, which was that DMG rating was far from king in that game? If the claim is that DMG rating is the only factor when DMG determines WS, that would have been the case in XI. It was not the case.

[Lamentor]

Hi, all. Lots of discussion and lots of things that I'm considering and gameplay styles that I'm also considering when playing ARC/BRD. My first big test has been on the Moogle fight. So far I've done about 15 runs with Ifrit's bow and 15 with Verdant shortbow on BRD, and the same amount each on ARC with the same bows, just as a comparison. I also was able to get a Sarnga (though still working on the +1) and am in the middle of testing moogle with this bow.

I'm going to be doing tests on a fight like Garuda as well, but it seems I need a more solid group to win the fight successfully, as well as obtain garuda's spine (I missed the pre 1.22a kills unfortunately).

All of the data so far is compiled, but hasn't been analyzed quite yet. I will say this though; between these 2 bows, from simple parser glances, the results won't be too far apart. I'm expecting to see a bigger difference when I use Garuda's Spine, but that remains to be seen. As we all know, drop rates are pure luck, so I might end up posting the results on these 3 weapons and add garuda spine later (and most likely sarnga +1 within the next week).

[Geo]

Don't you just cast songs and let the real DPSers do the dmgs?

[Lamentor]

Don't you just cast songs and let the real DPSers do the dmgs?

Like I said, I'm going to have many different play styles on my tests. To be fair, the 15 + 15 +15 is the amount of runs I'm counting into my data with just 1 playstyle in mind. I'm eventually going to test with these same bows, different play styles. But like I said earlier, it could take a few months to do so, so I'm trying to take what I can for the moment. I'm also possibly looking into this a bit too deeply. But I figure it's a decent time to do so, considering the likelihood that that stat bonuses and damage calculations will not be changing much from this point on.

[Lamentor]

So this hotfix takes away from the whole WS light shot WS light shot strategy. Just saying. Which is fine, honestly.

[NoctisUmbra]

So this hotfix takes away from the whole WS light shot WS light shot strategy. Just saying. Which is fine, honestly.

Yea.. that came outta nowhere. Don't understand.

[Sano]

With this change (Light Shot being forced onto cooldown after Weapon Skills), what do you all think about Garuda vs Ifrit? I want to say that Garuda would still win, since it's cooldown on LS will be shorter, but not sure if people will believe me