Bring Back Kaiten

[Bobby66]

Why not add 10 more buttons then , that do nothing in particular but you must use them every time before any other ability, oh too many buttons ? skill issue.

I Suggest we add Kaiten I Kaiten II and Kaiten III , each Kaiten is for a different Iaijutsu

That would be awesome, give me more buttons to press please.

[Arohk]

That would be awesome, give me more buttons to press please.

We should need this to play the game, anything below 50 hotkeys for singletarget rotation is not good enough.

[Deo14]

We should need this to play the game, anything below 50 hotkeys for singletarget rotation is not good enough.

When in doubt, try hyperbole to make your argument seem legit. Removing Kaiten removed single button, which didn't solve anything, it made Kenki another bland gauge and it made you spam shinten for 20-23% of your total button presses. You can check any decent SAM log to verify it. So what do you think is better, 35 buttons, with Kaiten making some ~8% of your total actions and Shinten ~12%, or have 34 buttons, but you spend 5th of your time pressing single bland skill.

[Arohk]

So what do you think is better, 35 buttons, with Kaiten making some ~8% of your total actions and Shinten ~12%, or have 34 buttons, but you spend 5th of your time pressing single bland skill.

I think it would be better to have an absolute maximum of 20 buttons for combat.
And i also think that combat in its core is not good in FF14 when compared to other MMOs, it starts with the awful movement and automatic turning to enemies, which makes you run the wrong direction.
The amount of abilities you need to push is just covering this up and you notice it mostly on bosses with narrow paths like P10 savage.

[Deo14]

I think it would be better to have an absolute maximum of 20 buttons for combat.
And i also think that combat in its core is not good in FF14 when compared to other MMOs, it starts with the awful movement and automatic turning to enemies, which makes you run the wrong direction.
The amount of abilities you need to push is just covering this up and you notice it mostly on bosses with narrow paths like P10 savage.

You can disable automatic turning to target, this means that you will need to look at the target yourself, but you won't have that awful 0.5s worth of running in wrong direction. Or you can get used to it, if you're not casting, you can jump before using a skill and it will not make you run in wrong direction since you cannot change direction mid-air. Not the best solution, but sometimes you know that it will try to fuck you up, so you can plan beforehand and just jump. Wall bosses are definitely worst for this.

Anyways, problem is that combat is already extremely barebones. 2.5 GCD, with few oGCDs sprinkled on top doesn't make very sophisticated gameplay. Average APM per each job is just like 30-47, which is piss low. There is no decision making, barely any DoTs to keep track of, no ailments, nothing. Meanwhile, GW2 has average of 70-80 APM, with outliers at 120 APM, very chaotic combat, sophisticated DoTs builds, active dodge, much more ground targeted skills, weapon swaps and so on. BDO has combos, complex positionals and other stuff.

FFXIV's combat is just too easy and way to simple. If you reduced each job to 20 buttons, combat will be officially brain dead. Having variety of buttons is last thing that keeps combat on some level, many people compare it to piano, and they're right. It's not about smashing buttons as fast as you can get, it's pretty much memory game, with very little variance and improvisation. If you wanted to reduce jobs to some 20 buttons, you will need to do more drastic changes to combat overall - like making removing oGCD vs GCD, all skills are now 1s long, and that's it. Or even worse, SE will keep doing what they're doing now, and they'll shift difficulty from playing your job correctly, to doing encounter correctly. Which results in making even wider gap between normal content and Savage.

[Arohk]

You can disable automatic turning to target, this means that you will need to look at the target yourself, but you won't have that awful 0.5s worth of running in wrong direction.

I am aware this is possible, but doesn't work in practice because the angle of what counts "infront" of you is too small, if it was 180° like in any other game yes, but if you turn this off you practically can't attack anything that is even slightly not "infront" of you.
Especially in P10 savage when you must run over that stupid web and dare to use a skill you character turns to the boss and wants to run right into the poison, or off the edge on that small platform.
You shouldn't have to fight the awful controls in addition to fighting the boss itself, this could easily be fixed if SE simply let you attack from any direction, which you already kinda can btw, your auto-attacks always hit enemies behind you, if you hold down right mouse button and move your mouse left/right you can use skills on enemies behind you without turning to it, this works even better in legacy mode.
It is totally stupid and deserves no excuses.

[CelestiCer]

I think it would be better to have an absolute maximum of 20 buttons for combat.

If this is your idea of " Amazing Gameplay " geezus. Not sure where this magical number of 20 is coming from. XIV's combat already is so simplistically linear that the only things we have left are Nuances to deal extra damage. Think...

• Slice Casting
• Optimizing landing all Positionals, incl. uptime strats
• Variations of buttons required to press
• Raidbuff timings
• Resource holding and management

Functionally? Kaiten served a lot of purpose and that's not even going into how satisfying it felt to use. It's removal? didn't suddenly terraform XIV's gameplay to be groundbreakingly improved... Nor reaching that magical number. Like is this incl. or excl. the four ASWD buttons for movement? Speaking of movement...

And i also think that combat in its core is not good in FF14 when compared to other MMOs, it starts with the awful movement and automatic turning to enemies, which makes you run the wrong direction.
The amount of abilities you need to push is just covering this up and you notice it mostly on bosses with narrow paths like P10 savage.

There's a sense of irony with a GNB complaining about " Needing to press to many buttons ", you can circumvent this issue with settings and the other part is just user error in my opinion. Kaiten was perfectly fine it's removal to reduce button count by 1 does absolutely nothing other then making gameplay more terrible.

" But Celesti? we have to many buttons to press! its to much Fun! how do we possibly manage our game with this much Fun!? My braincells are overstimulated, I can't even hit the boss properly in P10S! a fight with one of the biggest hibox imaginable? " =u=; okey...

[Arohk]

If this is your idea of " Amazing Gameplay " geezus.

This is what peak gameplay looks like
https://youtu.be/sDDiIvuDFRA

[Deo14]

This is what peak gameplay looks like
https://youtu.be/sDDiIvuDFRA

Hard to say if that is supposed to be ironic or not. But if not, that just seems like mindless button mashing, with active dodging. No offense to B&S, this game seems to attract some niche audience which love it, but just in your video, there are clear red flags for cheap game, with attempts to mask it. Just look at all the camera shake, holy. It takes 11 minutes to kill that scorpion, and all he does are seemingly same "mechanics" that you just need to dodge. Other players are hidden, you can only see their name tags. If you like it, good for you, but there is reason that game isn't mainstream like WoW, GW2 or FFXIV.

But to expand upon it - this kind of dodging will not work with FFXIV server infrastructure which works on basis of potatoes and a lot of duct tape. Secondly, if combat was changed from slow, strict rotation, to 100+ APM button mashing, people will hate that much more than having to use ~33 buttons. When was the last time you've seen MMORPG to completely change not only it's combat, but whole philosophy and flow of it?

[Arohk]

Just look at all the camera shake, holy. It takes 11 minutes to kill that scorpion, and all he does are seemingly same "mechanics" that you just need to dodge. Other players are hidden, you can only see their name tags. If you like it, good for you, but there is reason that game isn't mainstream like WoW, GW2 or FFXIV.

There is a reason for what you see on the screen, but you can only know whats going on if you played the game, Bosses in BnS had similar mechanics as bosses in other games like wow or Ff14, but was more focused on action combat, for example, there are no tanks, healers or DPS classes, everyone is DPS essentially.
You can turn off the camera shaking but this player decided to keep it on, you can toggle off other players the same way to toggle off spell effects in FF14, for visual clarity or performance reason.
Bosses in BnS are mostly dodging, blocking or iframing attacks, he only got hit twice in the entire fight, and one hit can be enough to get killed or wipe if the tank gets knocked too far away from the boss, there is a lot of boss positioning going on so the boss doesnt hit the rest of the party, you had to stack players that get aired and juggle a fireball, you had to block rockets at the end by activly using your "block" skill and not just stand infront of them.
They killed the Boss 1 second before the enrage, when the raid content was brand new, thats like clearing Savage in week one.

Why Blade and Soul failed has vastly other reasons than the combat, which was probably also too difficult for the average player.

But to expand upon it - this kind of dodging will not work with FFXIV server infrastructure which works on basis of potatoes and a lot of duct tape. Secondly, if combat was changed from slow, strict rotation, to 100+ APM button mashing, people will hate that much more than having to use ~33 buttons. When was the last time you've seen MMORPG to completely change not only it's combat, but whole philosophy and flow of it?

Yes, obviously FF14 could never work like BnS combat, althoughsome jobs do have dash abilities like dancer, but they play no important role anywhere, you can do any mechanic without sprint or movement skills.
BnS is not button spamming, you can hold down the right mouse button for your auto attacks but the global CD is almost non existent so you can use a lot of skills at the same time, that really only depends on your Ping.
I played BnS a lot before i switched to FF14, the difference in pace was shocking at first, everything felt so incredibly slow, but the onyl thing i want them to change is the damn "auto turning to the enemy", that is absolute dogshit to play against.