Bring Back Kaiten

[Deo14]

... but the onyl thing i want them to change is the damn "auto turning to the enemy", that is absolute dogshit to play against.

Just a few comments back, you wanted to make every job have only 20 buttons. You admitted that FFXIV cannot have BnS combat, so what kind of combat do you imagine will work in FFXIV with 20 buttons? Keep in mind, you cannot have things as:

• DoTs
• Ailments
• Elemental stuff
• Big changes to the flow of combat (50 APM maximum)
• Aggro management
• Any meaningful choices in your rotation
• Anything that could be, in any shape or form, problematic or slightly inconvenient for devs. They cannot even be bothered to account for potential 50% on next GCD, this was one of their reasoning for Kaiten removal.
• Status effects
• Different builds
• ... and more

Because FFXIV's combat is so barebones, having 30+ buttons is about only thing you can do to make combat interesting. Less buttons will not magically solve any issues, it will merely make the game more boring. Game is already skewing the balance to shift the engagement from jobs to encounters. This results in all content lower than EX being incredibly dull, because you're stuck with boring, barebones jobs, while fighting a striking dummy.

[CelestiCer]

This is what peak gameplay looks like
https://youtu.be/sDDiIvuDFRA

You forgot to mention that peak gameplay starts at " 11:31 " into the video... ( sigh... )

We could all shower each other with Korean MMO combat footages, think Black Desert PvP or Revelation with more Dynamic fast paced intricate combat and highlight moments then XIV ( with bigger features.. ) that's just not the point... Besides ignoring every point, you cannot simply Copy paste another games Combat / Job Designs / Gameplay / Balancing over a pre-existing Game. " XIV sucks so here's better gameplay from another game there for Kaiten removal? Big good much wow "... that's your take?

You want less buttons purely for the sake of less yet you're not mentioning anything about how to reduce Samurai's skill kit to your magical 20 buttons while maintaining the same if not more depth ( as this is a Samurai thread btw... ) I don't even know if you been paying attention to Samurai changes lately? Square has been adding more pointless buttons way after Hissatsu: Kaiten was introduced. From Guren and Senei and Shoha I and II unnecessarily being split.

[Arohk]

I will try to explain it better when i am back home, and samurai specific, but i don't think you will agree anyway.

[CelestiCer]

I will try to explain it better when i am back home, and samurai specific, but i don't think you will agree anyway.

All I play is Samurai 24/7 and nothing else. Self proclaimed Nr1 protester against Kaiten removal. If you think you have a very good rebuttal to keep Kaiten removed and not only that? Trim down Samurai's skill kit down to 20 buttons alone... while maintaining or improving XIV's PvE combat in depth/complexity within FFXIV's current game and Job design? while not insinuating Samurai to be reworked? Consider me impressed.

Though we already theory-crafted everything. Hypothetically speaking... Exclude the non Samurai ( Role ) skills we can press and junction to our Hotbars...

• Sprint
• Limitbreak
• Legsweep
• Tinctures
• True north
• Feint
• Blood Bath
• Arms Length

Leaving Samurai with 27 Samurai buttons.

Next the terrible suggestion to mash all combo buttons into 1 Button merging...

• Hakaze
• Jinpu
• Shifu
• Gekko
• Kasha
• Yukikaze

Beyond a moronic suggestion as this essentially Auto Plays the job for you, but why stop here lets not forget to make the AoE rotation as dumb as that merging the following Buttons...

• Fuko
• Oka
• Mangetsu

We saved 2 this way and we can fuse/merge the following buttons as well

• Senei/Guren
• Shoha/Shoha II
• Ikishoten/Ogi Namikiri
• Iaijutsu/Tsubame

To save 4 more buttons. Lets go full stupid and make Meditate a passive cause why the hell wouldn't we wanna make the game even duller ( thanks Square ) and delete positionals cause my favorite ice cream flavor is of course " cardboard flavor " removing true north. With the crème de la crème finish, fusing Kyuten with Shinten to save yet another button.

We come down to Samurai 14 buttons if we did all of the above, but we had 8 non Samurai buttons minus True north cause we're predicting the future here, 14+7=21 buttons.

Even in this extreme example...
Nothing about this improves our gameplay it just makes it terrible / bland / boring and worse it auto plays my Job now. Even if your argument is to give us more mechanics and complex fights, that's still a dumb argument as high end raiding makes up 5% of the games PvE content like Dio mentioned you encourage to make everything else in this game? 95% of all PvE combat content that much more boring by making the jobs as stupid as possible.

Quite naïve of you to think we did nothing in our time coping since Kaiten removal. That we never thought of any other alternatives and outcomes as 6.1 xD? I'm curious to what you have to share and it better not be anything as of what I wrote above... cause a lot of it I quite literally hate the concept of, mhm...

PS: I might or might not have forgotten to add or subtract Kaiten cause I am coping

[Arohk]

I see you understand the Problem quite well, but there is no reason to consolidate 1-2-3 combos, it would be enough to merge those that can't be used on its own , there are a few already but many more that needs this adaptation.

Ikishoten into Ogi Namikiri is one of the best examples, there is 0 reason to have Ogi Namikiri waste an extra hotkey, you can never use it on its own, by that Logic why doesnt Kaeshi: Namikiri use a seperate hotkey as well?
Why did the Gunbreakers Trigger combo got merged into one Hotkey but not the Red Mages?
Why does Communio on reaper wastes a hotkey when you can only use it after Enshroud?

You can't just stack more and more abilities on the jobs without freeing up some space, that is probably why Kaiten got removed, they added new skills but ran out of space on their PS Controller, so it was the most logical thing to remove a skill that does essentially nothing.

for a start i would be fine with fixing those logical errors on the jobs, that is already a big help.

Also you said you only play Samurai, i think that is a Problem on your side, youre so fixated on one job while i play almost all jobs, so i have a wider knowledge of the entire situation.

[Zairava]

Ikishoten into Ogi Namikiri is one of the best examples, there is 0 reason to have Ogi Namikiri waste an extra hotkey, you can never use it on its own, by that Logic why doesnt Kaeshi: Namikiri use a seperate hotkey as well?
Why did the Gunbreakers Trigger combo got merged into one Hotkey but not the Red Mages?
Why does Communio on reaper wastes a hotkey when you can only use it after Enshroud?

You can't just stack more and more abilities on the jobs without freeing up some space, that is probably why Kaiten got removed, they added new skills but ran out of space on their PS Controller, so it was the most logical thing to remove a skill that does essentially nothing. Also you said you only play Samurai, i think that is a Problem on your side, youre so fixated on one job while i play almost all jobs, so i have a wider knowledge of the entire situation.

The worst part about all of this is you recognize the actual problem and continue labeling Kaiten somehow the one being the problem. Samurai mains would have the most knowledgeable and meaningful input about samurai because...you guessed it...Samurai isn't ninja. Samurai isn't Dragoon. Samurai isn't Red Mage. Samurai is Samurai.

Shoha II added nothing, waste of an ability slot seeing as how it could've just been an upgrade to Shoha
Ogi Namikiri could just replace Ikishoten upon using Ikishoten.
and so on.

We could go on and on with single target abilities having an aoe variant, but at the end of the day the line must be drawn somewhere, and situation dependent. Removing a core part of the job that players who mained the job love isn't the big brain move some people think it is.

Meditate is used purely for downtime periods, guess we should remove that, because that was somehow more useful than the core of the job that buffed every Iaijutsu use apparently.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Save calling something useless for actually useless abilities, like undraw, that somehow survived longer than Kaiten, which actually served purpose.

[CelestiCer]

You can't just stack more and more abilities on the jobs without freeing up some space, that is probably why Kaiten got removed, they added new skills but ran out of space on their PS Controller, so it was the most logical thing to remove a skill that does essentially nothing.

Also you said you only play Samurai, i think that is a Problem on your side, you're so fixated on one job while i play almost all jobs, so i have a wider knowledge of the entire situation.

It's funny how a GNB main is trying to impose veterancy in experience about SAM matters... when SAM mains tell them otherwise... as guess what? SAM mains...

The Redflag was already saying " Kaiten added nothing " and " Button-Bloat as no other skill had to go first ", using overused year old arguments that we already debunked through the floor it by now has reached the Chinese Servers... Not only that? You don't even play SAM in high-end content. That's the kicker, while complaining about casting as a Tank in P10S ( what in the... ) I really wonder how you would manage it as SAM on M1 spot when a another melee claims M2 doing Plat1 strat, let me know how that goes if you're already complaining about it on Tank.

So far you're bringing ( yet again... ) nothing to the table to improve Samurai's gameplay, nor disproving Kaiten removal's necessity as...

• Samurai's didn't asked for it
• Clearing content with Kaiten was never an issue
• Did not tackle the non-existing button bloat issue
• Also did not reduced our APM
• Our gameplay devolved into Shinten spamming
• Making room for something new that still never came

So much for touting your " Overwhelming knowledge " of having played all the Jobs as all it does to proof to me is that playing a lot? does not by default translate that you know what you're talking about... Nothing about what you say shows that Samurai is better off without Kaiten not functionally nor gameplay wise, and no proof about how to make Samurai a 20 button max job which you claimed is the optimal way to design our jobs btw... and function/play near the same as the current Samurai without a heavy rework to its Job or XIV's fight/combat design. ( where do all these non-Samurai's come from complaining about Kaiten!? )

I could also do the same, barely spend time playing GNB and go to the Tank forum section and lecture everyone how GNB needs to lose half their skill kit. Lose another cartridge why not, that sound really silly... who would ever do that barely playing another job or role and lecture others what should happen to their main jobs? amirite! who would ever do that? ( give back my goddamn Kaiten... )

[Deo14]

I don't think there is much else to be said, that has not been said already, so let me use GNB analogy - one of the frequent problems I hear from GNB players is that it can be hard to weave in your mits when you're in your burst phase, so I propose genius solution - just remove continuation.

Continuation is the cause of lack of weave spots (source: idk, I don't even play GNB lol, but trust me, I know better than actual GNB mains) in not only your burst, but every 30s. What's the point of this whole gimmick anyway? It's literally button and action bloat, just put potency into their respective skill in Gnashing Fang combo and Burst strike. It's oGCD for the sake of oGCD, it doesn't add anything of value into the job. Do you like the animation? Oh come on, don't be a baby, only babies care about how does the job feel, everyone knows only relevant factor is that jobs are clean, following all norms, and don't deviate from other jobs.

Sarcasm aside, thinking about continuation, I realized that removing it would make more sense than removing Kaiten. Kaiten was at least relevant because of Kenki management and it made sure you don't spend 1/5th of your time spamming Shinten, but continuation has no gauge, no CD, and you always press it after Gnashing Fang Combo/Burst Strike. "You use X before every Y" - have you heard about this argument before? Funny, right? Gnashing Fang/Burst Strike and continuation is literally "You use X after every Y". So why should it stay in the game, but Kaiten not?

[Lancer82]

Bring it back!!

[Heroman3003]

I don't think there is much else to be said, that has not been said already, so let me use GNB analogy - one of the frequent problems I hear from GNB players is that it can be hard to weave in your mits when you're in your burst phase, so I propose genius solution - just remove continuation.

Continuation is the cause of lack of weave spots (source: idk, I don't even play GNB lol, but trust me, I know better than actual GNB mains) in not only your burst, but every 30s. What's the point of this whole gimmick anyway? It's literally button and action bloat, just put potency into their respective skill in Gnashing Fang combo and Burst strike. It's oGCD for the sake of oGCD, it doesn't add anything of value into the job. Do you like the animation? Oh come on, don't be a baby, only babies care about how does the job feel, everyone knows only relevant factor is that jobs are clean, following all norms, and don't deviate from other jobs.

Sarcasm aside, thinking about continuation, I realized that removing it would make more sense than removing Kaiten. Kaiten was at least relevant because of Kenki management and it made sure you don't spend 1/5th of your time spamming Shinten, but continuation has no gauge, no CD, and you always press it after Gnashing Fang Combo/Burst Strike. "You use X before every Y" - have you heard about this argument before? Funny, right? Gnashing Fang/Burst Strike and continuation is literally "You use X after every Y". So why should it stay in the game, but Kaiten not?

I mean, you described the answer yourself - in burst phase, its a choice between using Continuation, using mit or trying to weave both and potentially screwing up, which is actually a meaningful choice, as GNB actually has situations where they might have to do something other than Continuation as their oGCD or try and fit two things in same GCD window (which won't always work), unlike SAM's Kaiten.