Bring Back Kaiten

[Carighan]

Usually love how blunt you are, Cari, but the masochists who solo deep dungeons as Astro and Black Mage do sometimes actually press this button. Which is really scraping the barrel to be contrarian on my part, but, y'know.

Haha, fair. xD

[Maxilor]

Excuse me, just paying my respects.

*leaves flowers*

[Keichi]

To sleep:
You need it as a mage in the early lvl for the first few msq and class quest.
And, its a role skill. Not a class specific spell.

[RenkoBernkastel]

To sleep:
You need it as a mage in the early lvl for the first few msq and class quest.

You don't.

[Carighan]

Yeah you really don't. Sleep ought to be and hopefully is removed in EverCold. We can't debloat if everything gets to stick around because Timmy (9) got to use it once at level 10 in one specific dungeon and thinks that absolutely validates the skill.

If you don't press it multiple times per hour of combat, regardless of which combat, remove it. And yes, this is why I absolutely am in favor of merging AoE and single target abilities, and have been for a long long time. They're an either-or situation and hence there's no reason to have both separate on the hotbar.

[Keichi]

You need sleep at the start of the game. At least is it usefull.
I had last month created a new chara as a mage for fun of experience the beginning again. And there was at least 2 quest, where i would probably die, if i wouldnt use sleep.

The thraumaturge quest where you find the urn.
The enemy are at that point still a higher lvl as you, if you only did the msq. In order to reach the mission point has you to sneak throught some guards. One place is very narrowed, where every time i do that, do i take aggro. Using sleep helps to avoid the battle, until you has the cut scene.
In the story battle than are allways new enemy showing up. Their dmg seems to be to high, as if the Auto heal of the quest could keep up. In using sleep, has you to deal with only one enemy at the same time and than is the heal keeping up.

The same in the Uldah msq quest, when the betrayl of the mercenaries comes. You has to fight 3-4 enemy at ones, with the commander being stronger. Your support is dealing with 1 of them. You yourself would has to deal with 2-3 people. That is to much damage you are taking. By using sleep, are you again forcing a 1 vs 1 and than is your healing keeping up.

This problem seems to vanish later on, when you has aoe skills and better equipment. But at least at the start is sleep usefull.

[Carighan]

You realize you dragging two low-level situations you could have just as easily solved without sleep out to try justify the skill being around only makes it look more rubbish? That's ignoring of course that the rest of us just solved it the danny-devito-meme way.

[Keichi]

What has you solved?
I only saw the quote that you say, nobody has sleep in the hotbar (i have it) and, that it could vanish.
I simply say, that the spell has at least to the beginning a use. Probably are there some more msq fights, where sleep is very usefull as a mage. But its nearly 10 years ago, that i did most of the msq. And most of the msq did i as a other class as a blackmage, because i had allways hp trouble and was very slow with casting, that i wasnh able to keep up with all the enemy at ones (only yet in DT had i done all msq as a blm again and there had whe rarely many enemie at ones).

Sleep is not really a spell for group play. But for solo content. Except, that its very often faster to use aoe spells and shield against them. The only thing that sleep need is, that the enemy dont instantly wakes up (mean, that sleep is the caster version of stun).

[RenkoBernkastel]

You need sleep at the start of the game. At least is it usefull.
I had last month created a new chara as a mage for fun of experience the beginning again. And there was at least 2 quest, where i would probably die, if i wouldnt use sleep.

The thraumaturge quest where you find the urn.
The enemy are at that point still a higher lvl as you, if you only did the msq. In order to reach the mission point has you to sneak throught some guards. One place is very narrowed, where every time i do that, do i take aggro. Using sleep helps to avoid the battle, until you has the cut scene.
In the story battle than are allways new enemy showing up. Their dmg seems to be to high, as if the Auto heal of the quest could keep up. In using sleep, has you to deal with only one enemy at the same time and than is the heal keeping up.

The same in the Uldah msq quest, when the betrayl of the mercenaries comes. You has to fight 3-4 enemy at ones, with the commander being stronger. Your support is dealing with 1 of them. You yourself would has to deal with 2-3 people. That is to much damage you are taking. By using sleep, are you again forcing a 1 vs 1 and than is your healing keeping up.

This problem seems to vanish later on, when you has aoe skills and better equipment. But at least at the start is sleep usefull.

I played BLM from ARR to Endwalker and never had to use sleep even once. No idea what you are talking about, it really seems more like a you issue instead of being a reason to have sleep on the hotbar.
A friend of mine occasionally likes to try to play around with it and see where you can use it. In most situations you just straight up can't. The devs put sleep in the game and then forgot about it entirely.
The only place in the game I can see sleep being somewhat useful is if you solo PotD on BLM, but that's such an edge case it really doesn't justify the skill staying in the game.

[RaionKansen]

I don't want Kaiten back.

It would make the job really rigid again.