Bring Back Kaiten

[RyuuZero]

I think it's fair to give Insight of How I deal with the Samurai Kit, so let me show you how I play Samurai to further build on the Understand that I build over the years playing Samurai and yes I play on Console/Controller so I play with multiple interfaces:

Interface 1: Single Target
https://ibb.co/JFWJVb9

as you see there are 2 Macros, the Macro on Triangle is Shoha and Senei on One Button and the Macro on Square is Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri on One Button, Senei and Ikishoten both have a 2minute Cool Down, so it works well together without the need to switch interfaces and I will rewrite that Ikishoten Macro once we get a Single Target Ogi. For those who are interested in these Macros:

Senei+Shoha Macro =

/macroicon "Hissatsu: Senei"
/ac "Shoha"
/ac "Hissatsu: Senei"

when you have 3 Meditation Stacks press this button and for Senei aswell of course.

Ikishoten+Ogi Namikiri Macro =

/macroicon "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ogi Namikiri"

personally I named this Macro How I would've named Ogi Namikiri and Kaeshi Namikiri: Double Slice Buster you have to press the Button 3 times to use this macro to it's fullest potencial I recommend to write the Abilities in Auto-translate so you can use this macro on all available clients and also These Macros are a suggestion, I do not command you to use those Macros, just do as you please.

Interface 2: Counter/Refresh and Kenki Option Display
https://ibb.co/dWr14Jz

This Interface is mostly just there for Third Eye, Second Wind and Blood Bath, all the other stuff is just kind of there and it's a bit chaotic. I basicly just use this interface to counter raidwide AoEs and then switch back to Interface 1, most of the time.

Interface 3: AoE
https://ibb.co/4Vp1D0Z

I love this Interface since it doesn't need Macros and almost every ability on display is AoE! Mumyo Shoha to spend my Meditation Stacks while I'm in an AoE Situation and Ogi Namikiri manually aswell oh and next to Ikishoten, Guren because of the 2minute Cool Down and If I have too many Setsugekka, there is Hagakure to convert into Kenki. By The Way, I got the inspiration for this Interface while playing on my Hrothgar Alt and I'm so happy that I adapted it on my Main!

Interface 4: Utility
https://ibb.co/8KcbcH3

This Interface also looks kind of chaotic and I mainly have this for the L2 Side.. It's an Interface that I use on most all other Jobs I play, so it's quite handy if a Knockback Immunity Situation occurs and course True North.

[RHarris1349]

Here’s an easy fix to our “action bloat issue” Squenix:

Take away Kaeshi: Higanbana and give us back Hissatsu: Kaiten.

And like magic, problem solved!

[CelestiCer]

This is how I have my HUD setup

Minimalistic take. The idea is to stop fighting the hotbar, focus on the fight. All buttons are hidden to help me do so and memorized since all I do is play SAM ( for now... ).

Explanation: Hakaze is hidden on 1, pressing it highlights Yukikaze, so I know it's active. Pressing Jinpu or Shifu will turn off Yukikaze, but highlights Kasha and Gekko. This I apply to everything.

Ikishoten pops Ogi Namikiri buff anyways.
Senei shares CD with Guren anyways
ThirdEye / Yaten / Gyoten you never spam to need to know the CD.
Meditate or Enpi or Hakagureyou nvr spam to need to see them
Shoha and Shoha II are indicated by the Meditate Gauge.
Shinten / Kaiten / Kyuten, all u need is to see the Kenki Gauge for these
Fuga / Mangetsu / Oka / really are just AoE buttons I put on R F V mixed with Shift or Mouse buttons, honestly its really a 1 2 3 thing don't need to see them.


I already " Pre-Solved " Button Bloat " visually " on my Hud, it's all just properly hotkey'd. That's why it baffles me that they can't figure this out or even see a logical connection between so many skills to fix Button Bloat. It's obvious, it's a given if they but had anyone on their team that plays the game and the classes.

PS: No I don't use an MMO mouse either, I use the cheapest corsair with 2 side buttons .__.;

[RyuuZero]

Kaeshi: Higanbana is a Part of Tsubamegaeshi, like Higanbana is a Part of Iaijutsu.
you would basicly take away 1/3 of a Skill, which doesn't make anysense since the button bloat critique in Samurai is wrong from the start
it would make more sense to turn Tsubamegaeshi into a trait so you have to double tab Iaijutsu, but then the Tsubamegaeshi Skills had to be damage adjusted due to increased frenquency and Kaeshi: Higanbana should count extra for that change to make sense in first place so: no thanks

[RyuuZero]

I kinda wanna see this HUD in action to be honest^^, though I will repeat, even if there are many differing opinions, our goal has to be the same: we want the devs to bring back Kaiten,
for me as First Kenki Skill to introduce the Samurai Player to Kenki as a Resource to boost damage and Shinten/Kyuten/Senei and Guren as additional options for leftover Kenki.
But Kaiten is what validates Kenki for me in the First Place.

if you want you can write your personal reason down here why they should bring back Kaiten

[MalekMan]

Bump. I absolutely hate this change and Square cannot stop hearing our voices until they return it.

My two big reasons for it are:

1) CLASS FANTASY: There was absolutely nothing more badass-feeling than twirling our swords around going into an Iaijutsu to empower it. Simple, but incredibly important.

2) CLASS COHESION: As has been stated in this thread already, without Kaiten, there is now literally 0 interaction between Sen and Kenki, and the removal of that one single button makes the whole class feel like an incohesive mess. On top of that, Kenki management has been completely axed, and there is just nothing fun about spamming Shinten or Kyuten with absolutely no thought in how that's going to affect the rest of your rotation.

SQUARE. PLEASE BRING IT BACK IN 6.2 BEFORE YOU KILL THE ENTIRE CLASS.

[FrogBiscuit]

SQUARE. PLEASE BRING IT BACK IN 6.2 BEFORE YOU KILL THE ENTIRE CLASS.

And before 6.2, several months away of SAM being in effective conflict with itself the entire time, a unsatisfying mess of a class that used to be fun to play but was largely robbed of that very concept, would be even better!

[MalekMan]

And before 6.2, several months away of SAM being in effective conflict with itself the entire time, a unsatisfying mess of a class that used to be fun to play but was largely robbed of that very concept, would be even better!

I say 6.2 because unfortunately there's no way in hell they're going to make even minor class changes outside of a major patch. If they were to do so, they'd have already reverted this is response to the outcry before the patch launched.

[FrogBiscuit]

I say 6.2 because unfortunately there's no way in hell they're going to make even minor class changes outside of a major patch. If they were to do so, they'd have already reverted this is response to the outcry before the patch launched.

lol, sorry, I wasn't trying to be critical...

Just overly optimistic because the alternative is depressing...

[darkdyllon]

I think it's important for me to point out (speaking as someone with a physical disability that impacts my hands) that button bloat is a more complex issue than it might seem. That's why I think if SE really wants to tackle that issue, they should consider condensing certain combos to a single button. However this request is not intended to result in entire rotations being condensed to one button. Additionally, (and I cannot possibly stress this enough) such a solution should only ever be implemented as an optional feature. It's not going to work for everyone and should not be implemented unilaterally. But nobody would have room to complain about jobs being "too hard" then. And SE would never again have any legitimate basis to make unwanted changes like this.

understandable from your point of view.
if they made it an option for more accessability options i would be 100% on board, people who don't like to hit 1-1-1 can just keep hitting 1-2-3 for example, but for you it would be a game changer in an positive way.
the issue is that they're just removing an essential button (that didn't contribute to button bloat as they claim) for no real reason.
if they for example said "ok, so we made an option to make the combo transform itself into the next button, while also making ikishoten transform to ogi namakiri etc" it would've been fine (this would remove more bloat)
but instead they remove an essential tool to the identity of an SAM, you're already casting your big finishers, buffing that "feels" right.