Bring Back Kaiten

[CelestiCer]

In the past, we have been disagreeing on the impact merging Shoha1+2 would have but I must admit I like those two points.

I agree with Deithwen.

Remember, our button/skill merging solutions only was mentioned to retain " Hissatsu: Kaiten " due to Dev's statement to remove it and the near non-existing " Button Bloat issue ". Our proposals was meant to keep SAM gameplay near the same, the proposals being...

• Fusing Guren/Senei and Shoha I/II

Turn them into AoE versions with 1st target hit max potency + Fall off AoE damage

• Midare turns into Tsubame, Ikishoten turns into Ogi Namikiri

Gameplay 100% the same only buttons moved as activations that's it.

FFXIV barely has any situations requiring more precise single target options in our OGCD's. FFXIV would need reflective mechanics which is rare or mobs that blow because you hit the wrong mob(s) in between a pack which is pretty much non-existing. Added bonus to the proposals? Zero Damage Loss, Zero Gameplay Loss.

Lastly Square's final statement " to make room For Future changes ", well with our proposal? buttons cleared, SAM's kit compressed and kept the same with room for new like situational skills whilst returning our " Kaiten ". Which is feedback they ignored, but that's of course to the surprise of no one.

[RyuuZero]

I agree with Deithwen.

Remember, our button/skill merging solutions only was mentioned to retain " Hissatsu: Kaiten " due to Dev's statement to remove it and the near non-existing " Button Bloat issue ". Our proposals was meant to keep SAM gameplay near the same, the proposals being...

• Fusing Guren/Senei and Shoha I/II

Turn them into AoE versions with 1st target hit max potency + Fall off AoE damage

• Midare turns into Tsubame, Ikishoten turns into Ogi Namikiri

Gameplay 100% the same only buttons moved as activations that's it.

FFXIV barely has any situations requiring more precise single target options in our OGCD's. FFXIV would need reflective mechanics which is rare or mobs that blow because you hit the wrong mob(s) in between a pack which is pretty much non-existing. Added bonus to the proposals? Zero Damage Loss, Zero Gameplay Loss.

Lastly Square's final statement " to make room For Future changes ", well with our proposal? buttons cleared, SAM's kit compressed and kept the same with room for new like situational skills whilst returning our " Kaiten ". Which is feedback they ignored, but that's of course to the surprise of no one.

by merging Shoha1&2 and Guren&Senei you religate entire resources to AoE, in situations like the Drake Family in the Variant Dungeon you would sit on those resources which goes against the fantasy of the Samurai and would change SAM Gameplay forever, thus I repeat my points:

1. turn Tsubamegaeshi into a follow Up to Iaijutsu, just how it is with Ogi Namikiri right now
2. turn Senei and Guren into buffs for Shinten and Kyuten, activated by Ikishoten

[Kalaam]

Honestly I want more stuff to be situational, to have choices between single target and AoE (other example, during the Melusine fight in 2nd coil, having parts of your rotation AoE by default can mess up the mechanics).
Ofc then there is the issue of button bloat

[RyuuZero]

Honestly I want more stuff to be situational, to have choices between single target and AoE (other example, during the Melusine fight in 2nd coil, having parts of your rotation AoE by default can mess up the mechanics).
Ofc then there is the issue of button bloat

well Ikishoten is on a 2min cd and Senei aswell as Guren are on a 2min cd..
so why not turning Senei into a Buff for Shinten and Guren into a Buff for Kyuten, activated by Ikishoten?
I think it even already exist on Warrior, doesn't Battlecry changes Fell Cleave and Decimate into other skills that do the same but more damage?
I say the same could be done to Samurai^^

[Kalaam]

well Ikishoten is on a 2min cd and Senei aswell as Guren are on a 2min cd..
so why not turning Senei into a Buff for Shinten and Guren into a Buff for Kyuten, activated by Ikishoten?
I think it even already exist on Warrior, doesn't Battlecry changes Fell Cleave and Decimate into other skills that do the same but more damage?
I say the same could be done to Samurai^^

That could work out I think, given that Kenki as a ressource isn't really an issue anyway a 2 minute ressource generation button isn't that useful.

[Xaphire]

I'll never understand why players are beating this drum so hard. I raided two tiers on SAM in Shadowbringers and have been playing it again in EXs/normal raids/Aglaia and not having kaiten is a giant nothing burger. I don't feel a real difference because there's another button to press instead of it. Kaiten was just busy work before every iaijutsu. I didn't miss it.

[CelestiCer]

I'll never understand why players are beating this drum so hard. I raided two tiers on SAM in Shadowbringers and have been playing it again in EXs/normal raids/Aglaia and not having kaiten is a giant nothing burger. I don't feel a real difference because there's another button to press instead of it. Kaiten was just busy work before every iaijutsu. I didn't miss it.

I don't know... it's almost like players liked Kaiten over a " Nothing Burger Shinten Spamming Gauge " I guess? Probably never as understandable as players beating the drum on other players beating their drums on Kaiten, and we have gone full circle... yet again =u=;

1. turn Tsubamegaeshi into a follow Up to Iaijutsu, just how it is with Ogi Namikiri right now
2. turn Senei and Guren into buffs for Shinten and Kyuten, activated by Ikishoten

First solution seems near unanimous. But your 2nd suggestion? You want...

• Senei/Guren buttons as 2 separate buffs...
• As 2 OGCD's to buff 2 other OGCD's...
• Connected to a 2 minute buff Ikishoten...

This solution really overcomplicates a very obvious solution to maintain a niche that is an very excessively rare problem currently? when you decide to not hold your OGCD's. Need to not hit something? just don't cast your AoE it's that simple, which is very rare situation. It just sounds like two 2min discount Kaiten cooldown activations for Kyuten and Shinten. But, we can agree to disagree.

[AluneTempest]

I'll never understand why players are beating this drum so hard. I raided two tiers on SAM in Shadowbringers and have been playing it again in EXs/normal raids/Aglaia and not having kaiten is a giant nothing burger. I don't feel a real difference because there's another button to press instead of it. Kaiten was just busy work before every iaijutsu. I didn't miss it.

For me the true problem of removing Kaiten is because SE remove something people enjoyed on the job and dont give anything in the place.
Shinten spam is not fun, if the skill have a cool animation or something that really make sense to use the action a lot of times, people will not complain that much.

Shinten is just a boring Ogcd with a bad animation that dont fit the other SAM actions.

[RyuuZero]

For me the true problem of removing Kaiten is because SE remove something people enjoyed on the job and dont give anything in the place.
Shinten spam is not fun, if the skill have a cool animation or something that really make sense to use the action a lot of times, people will not complain that much.

Shinten is just a boring Ogcd with a bad animation that dont fit the other SAM actions.

Ehh Shinten is like Iron, Iron is good for the body but too much Iron is bad. I'd say Shinten has it's place but Shinten alone is just sad

[RyuuZero]

I'll never understand why players are beating this drum so hard. I raided two tiers on SAM in Shadowbringers and have been playing it again in EXs/normal raids/Aglaia and not having kaiten is a giant nothing burger. I don't feel a real difference because there's another button to press instead of it. Kaiten was just busy work before every iaijutsu. I didn't miss it.

The thing with Kaiten is that it changed how you interacted with Kenki, back before 6.1 you used Kenki to boost your Weaponskills, now you just use it for Shinten, which feels really empty