Bring Back Kaiten

[ThorneDynasty]

It really is at the point where kenki is so damn shallow it might actually just be better to remove that busywork of a bar entirely and wait for something better to turn up in 8.0 or whatever, huh.

Or are all the apologists still 100% convinced 7.0 will magically turn around every baffling design decision around and that by 7.1 we won't be having the exact same deflection argument that the it's the next expansion that will perfect everything?

[RyuuZero]

It really is at the point where kenki is so damn shallow it might actually just be better to remove that busywork of a bar entirely and wait for something better to turn up in 8.0 or whatever, huh.

Or are all the apologists still 100% convinced 7.0 will magically turn around every baffling design decision around and that by 7.1 we won't be having the exact same deflection argument that the it's the next expansion that will perfect everything?

removing Kenki entirely? huh.. well for my point of view the 6.1 changes mostly crippled Samurai's Identity for no good reason outside of "here have guaranteed crit on your burst", I'd it would be a waste of Good Job Design if they brutally change Samurai like that.. In otherwords it would be a shame if they just batter the entire Gameplay because of 6.1...

[xAFROx]

It really is at the point where kenki is so damn shallow it might actually just be better to remove that busywork of a bar entirely and wait for something better to turn up in 8.0 or whatever, huh.

Or are all the apologists still 100% convinced 7.0 will magically turn around every baffling design decision around and that by 7.1 we won't be having the exact same deflection argument that the it's the next expansion that will perfect everything?

I'm just waiting for what they'll say about 6.2

It'll inform me if the time I spent coming to the forum mattered at all or not.

I'm hoping by then I'll have leveled something else in the melee category that isn't a tank so I can still queue as not a tank for roulettes. Sometimes I just want to go in and spam some buttons without watching my hp drop from the wall to walls.

[xAFROx]

removing Kenki entirely? huh.. well for my point of view the 6.1 changes mostly crippled Samurai's Identity for no good reason outside of "here have guaranteed crit on your burst", I'd it would be a waste of Good Job Design if they brutally change Samurai like that.. In otherwords it would be a shame if they just batter the entire Gameplay because of 6.1...

Agreed. Kenki was among the best designed resources up until 6.0

It was fine if not a bit oversimplified, but it still interacted with most of the toolkit that SAM had at its disposal. Removing a piece of it has impacted it significantly to the point of being irrelevant and they should put back what they removed.

The same would have happened if they decided to remove shinten and kyuten, as well. While filler, it's still a piece of the gauge that has purpose. Without both to balance the resource, it just becomes pointless spam. And I don't think we need to be reminded about healer gameplay when talking about pointless, repetitive spam.

#BringBackKaiten

[Katsuragi_]

I think it was Matt from Bellular who made a video about how Jobs in XIV have a rhythm to them, and that's what makes them fun. Removing Kaiten doesn't have SAM play the same song anymore. Worse even, it's not a new song, it's a cacophony.
At the end of said video he said he finally understood, after doing his thinking and making the video, why SAMs were so pissed.

[AsiTsurugi]

I think it was Matt from Bellular who made a video about how Jobs in XIV have a rhythm to them, and that's what makes them fun. Removing Kaiten doesn't have SAM play the same song anymore. Worse even, it's not a new song, it's a cacophony.
At the end of said video he said he finally understood, after doing his thinking and making the video, why SAMs were so pissed.

Can you share the link to this video please?

[baklava151]

Can you share the link to this video please?

Think they mean this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jK34Fs_ce0

[Reese_Clairdale]

Mostly agree on your latest list but there are some points I partially or fully disagree on:

Merging Hissatsu: Senei with Hissatsu: Guren and Shoha with Mumyo Shoha would transform the Samurai into a Dragoon with Circle Geirskogul and Circle Nastrond and would betray the Fantasy Samurai is supposed to fulfill: A controlled High Burst Damage Dealer.

I don't think merging Senei back into Guren makes it more like Dragoon. The skill is still fundamentally different from Geirskogul because it's a gauge spender rather than a phase changer that further enables the next skills in your rotation. When Guren was first implemented it was at the same time as Samurai as a whole. This skill started out as a gigantic 50 Kenki spender that you use in all situations, and was your ultimate level 70 skill. It has since been relegated to dungeon packs and the odd multi target boss. Merging Senei's potency into Guren for the main target and then keeping the AoE potency for remaining targets would only restore it to its former glory in my opinion. It would also fix the issue wherein you get scaled down to any level 70 content and then Guren should now be in the skill slot that Senei now occupies. I've always found Senei to be a strange skill in terms of hotbar management as well as aesthetically; If you use any katana with a weird sheath design like the Omega katana, or no sheath at all like the Bokuto, the animation is very awkward.

Fully agree that both versions of Shoha should be preserved however. The idea I posted in my own thread to reduce bloat was to have these skills temporarily replace Shinten and Kyuten respectively as soon as your Meditation gauge fills, then also make them 25 Kenki spenders with a combined potency from both gauge mechanics. This would give them damage that is actually fitting for these very elaborate animations, enhancing SAM's identity for high burst damage.

In my Opinion: Positionals are restrictive since they seem to put an unnecessary risk on the Player and waste serverspace through added calculations

The server and client already have to do work to calculate your position vs the mob's position, as well as which way both are facing, so the extra calculation needed to turn this into a job mechanic is negligible because it's just using data that is already being dealt with constantly.

In terms of personal preference... on one hand I enjoyed the more strict positionals needed to maintain a proper flow of Kenki, so you don't have to do extra math later. On the other hand, I can't count the number of times I've seen people claim that SAM has no positionals, so instances of this happening have been greatly reduced.

if none of those suggestions suit the design philosophy, I plea to at least reduce the Kenki-Cost of Shinten and Kyuten, sitting on 20 Kenki with no option feels horrible!

Still a hard disagree here, unless they reduce Kenki generation significantly. I think it's vital that we first get 6.08 SAM's gameplay flow back even if they are adamant about keeping things like potency and critical changes, then further adjustments can be considered again.

I understand that seeing the 20 Kenki with nothing to do is a harsh reminder of Kaiten, but at the same time I have been so disgusted with the state of SAM that I haven't touched it since April. Aside from simply not having any fun with the job, I want to avoid boosting any SAM playtime metrics that SE collects.

[Flashy]

Bumping because it's really this simple. Revert SAM to 6.08

[Vencio]

Bumping because it's really this simple. Revert SAM to 6.08

Better not at all,

May as well compensate the rest of the job’s reverted abilities likewise if such was the case as it’ll further feed the flames in response to such that would have others react as to why didn’t the other jobs get reworked likewise?

Only time will tell -sips Ishgardian Wine-