Thread: 6.1 Samurai thoughts after getting to try them out in-game (please revert asap)

Yeah it feels awful. I’ve run the raid a few times and the 90 dungeons a bunch, and it feels abysmal. I don’t expect it to perform much different in savage or ultimate.
The kaiten change was what worried me the most, and while it does suck losing it, that’s not even the worst part of the changes.
Midare, the quintessential samurai move, our big powerhouse move since the jobs release, now hits like a wet noodle. My gekko and kasha crits are as strong or sometimes even stronger than midare, and that should never be the case. Barely being able to break 20k on a midare crit is fucking embarrassing.
Tenka gokken feels worse because it doesn’t get the auto grit AND Kaitens gone. Kenki is useless now, we are back to shinten spam like in storm blood which if I remember correctly they specifically changed hagakure in shadowbringers because they didn’t want shinten spam and yet here we are. I’m honestly baffled by these changes, they made the job worse in every imaginable way for literally no reason. There were plenty of other ways to fix the “button bloat” that didn’t require removing a staple ability and gutting all the damage out of the only other staple ability.
They really had their heads up their asses on this one. I have to agree with the JP players on this one, whoever’s in charge of samurai changes needs to get on camera right now and explain the logic behind this shit.
I’m genuinely mad about this, I loved my samurai, and hated every second of playing the new content because of these insanely stupid changes.

Seeing that Kaiten was being removed in the live letter didn't bother me that much, I was like okay whatever guess they'll just add the 50% as a base. But this massive potency dump makes the crits feel insulting, I understand the whole dps discrepancy between not getting the crits on your big skills and getting them but i would much rather have that dps variance than this. I have played SAM since it released in SB and I've enjoyed it even with the other changes it's had but it doesn't feel like SAM any more. I genuinely hope SE sees all the feedback and reverses the change.

I'm disapointed.

Kaiten was so satisfying to use and to watch, and it added some sort of ressource management.

For thoses who think it was useless because it had to be used every time before some other skills and never elswere, that's also the case for all the twos in our 123 combos, and I doubt you would consider getting rid of them.

Add to that the fact that the potency for all our most powerfull skills have been reduced and lowest ones increased, and you have now a SAM that is flat and less satisfying to play than before...

AOE changes are nice.

Autocrit is a false gift. Now dancers will not buff SAMs anymore since it would be a partial waste of their buff.

Solutions I suggest :

1 - Bring Kaiten back. To reduce button bloat, make Ikishoten become Ogi Namikiri after activation. It's also possible to combine Shoha 1 and 2 into a single skill that does both high single target damage and low cleave damages like Namikiri. Same for Senei. That's 3 button less without changing gameplay or feeling at all.

2 - Bring old potencys back. Damage spikes feels good. To reduce randomness of total damages, transform shinten into a buff that gives auto direct hit (and not auto crit) to the next X skills, costing Y amount of kenki. (I'm not competent enough to judge what X and Y values should be)

Thanks for reading.

Originally Posted by Winefaye

1 - Bring Kaiten back. To reduce button bloat, make Ikishoten become Ogi Namikiri after activation. It's also possible to combine Shoha 1 and 2 into a single skill that does both high single target damage and low cleave damages like Namikiri. Same for Senei. That's 3 button less without changing gameplay or feeling at all.

This will never happen, putting ogi into ikki or shoha 1 into 2 is tantamount to them admitting that it was a dumb idea to make the moves in the first place, it would basically be saying “everything we changed about Sam for Endwalker was the wrong decision and even though you told us it was wrong we did it anyways, and ..... well, I guess it was wrong. Please enjoy!”.
They have way too much ego for that. We are stuck with this no matter what. The only changes I imagine is getting will be added potencies (which are definitely needed for sure).

Originally Posted by Quor

JP has been increasingly upset as time has gone by. They're about as pissed off (well, comparatively speaking) as we are about the changes now. Not for entirely the same reasons; I think a lot of the upset feeling comes from the sudden-ness of the changes coupled with what they felt was Yoshi P. seemingly ignoring/glossing over the SAM changes when reading the patch notes.

Reminder that during the Shadowbringers pre-launch LL that the healer slide was skipped over completely, and people rightly complained, but because it was just healers it was ignored in the long run. You all could have prevented this if there was more outcry at the time, but most of you here chose not to, and here we are.

Just here doing my part as a fellow kaiten enjoyer.

As for the samurai changes, I'm not a fan myself. It doesn't accomplish the goals they set out to accomplish in the first place, and in spite of being a very tiny nerf on paper (3dps in a non-crit-focused group and 3% in a crit-focused group). The actual feel of the class is significantly worse than before due to these changes, and such is a terrible decision in the same vein of neutering SCH and AST gameplay back in ShB to bring it in line with WHM, greatly hurting the feel of the classes in the name of balance is a terrible way to balance stuff.

Also I'm pretty sure you can just do your 2-button-sen combo and spam hagakure into shinten during such outside of burst now and it'll be DPS neutral or a very miniscule loss, provided you keep up your buffs. They really don't test for this shit before going live, do they?

Also creating a forum account for the sole purpose of saying this change is bad.

The core class mechanic in samurai has always been building up to your big finishers. Making those finishers even more powerful by buffing them with Kaiten.

Now, that damage is just smeared out over the rest of the rotation, using midare feels a lot less satisfying that it did before. But Midare at least got the guaranteed crit. Tenka Goken got a potency nerf, no Kaiten, and nothing to make up for it. Boring and lame.

Please revert these changes.

On the bright side at least now they can remove Hagakure like they wanted in Shb. Without Kaiten it's only function is to reset your sen counter during phase transitions now.

I couldn't agree with you more. Even if removing Kaiten hasn't changed DPS by a huge degree (around 3% maximum in a crit-buff heavy comp), the class now feels like a crucial part of it is missing.

Kaiten bridged the gap between your normal abilities and your BIG ANIME FINISHER. The extra damage boost led to some massive numbers, which were always fun to see. Not to mention that the animation for Kaiten seamlessly transitioned into Midare. With the new potencies and lack of kaiten it now there feels like there is hardly any difference between abilities. I finally settled on SAM because I liked the playstyle and the class fantasy. But the changes really do a lot of damage to the fantasy of the "one-cut-man" that Samurai is supposed to have.