Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[Kazamaiya]

Well with patch 6.15 coming out next week, it's time to hop into the copium machine that Kaiten will be brought back and that the changes are reverted to 6.08.
I have my doubts about it, and honestly i am already dreading 6.2 enough as is (I don't want my favourite Melee AND Healer to be destroyed at the same time) and SAM not recieving it's reversions are gonna make Melee real hard for me when 6.2 comes around.
They really need to stop doing this simplification of all jobs. it makes the game more accessible to new people at the expense of other people's enjoyment.

[Akava]

I'm a little sad that other issues with 6.1 have been addressed in some capacity but the SAM frustration has gotten only silence. The housing crisis was a real big deal and got several Lodestone posts (rightfully so, it was bad). PvP gets a bit imbalanced and immediately got a lodestone post. Network issues got something. Third Party tools got something. Yet, the Samurai discussion continue to gets silence. I would love to be wrong here, but we haven't even gotten a simple, "We hear you" have we? It doesn't even have to be on the English forums, it could be anywhere or any language and I'd be happy to know they understand our frustration.

[cjbeagle]

it makes the game more accessible to new people at the expense of other people's enjoyment.

The bad part is that it isn't even true. By the time new players reach high levels where stuff actually starts getting a little complicated finally, they can't rightfully be considered new anymore - and by the time they get there, the complexity is a good thing.

The obvious exception is people who boost, but people who boost are generally coming from other MMOs - they don't need the handholding either.

Even if it did make it more accessible for new players, that's still sacrificing endgame satisfaction for transient "accessibility" even for them. It isn't good for anyone - even the people it's supposedly for.



What's worse is, my anecdotal experience has been that they need to do the exact opposite for actual new players.

I haven't introduced a single person to FFXIV who thought the early gameplay was too complex or inaccessible, but I've seen multiple people bounce off of it because of how insanely boring the jobs are initially and how long they stay that way.

Melee dps are stuck with a 2-button ST combo until 26, healers don't get their AOE until 45 - even some dps jobs don't have AOE by the time they start doing dungeons, so their initial dungeon experiences are doing ST dps in AOE situations, etc.

Even the jobs that do get AOE early are stuck spamming that one button in AOE until what? Level 50? 70?

BRD gets Shadowbite at level 72, so if they find Quick Nock spam boring, well, they're stuck with that for literally hundreds of hours - they'll progress all the way from Sastasha up to and including Holminster Switch with a single AOE GCD.

They need to be adding more complexity for new players instead of taking it away from veterans.

[Kazamaiya]

The bad part is that it isn't even true. By the time new players reach high levels where stuff actually starts getting a little complicated finally, they can't rightfully be considered new anymore - and by the time they get there, the complexity is a good thing.

They need to be adding more complexity for new players instead of taking it away from veterans.

I completely agree with you here. The only thing this simplifications does is harm the playerbase and the game as a whole. Veterans and hardcore raiders don't like it because their time ends up being wasted learning something that just gets yanked from them and lose a lot of flavour in favour of doing DPS. The newbies don't like it either because it makes the new game experience so dreadfully boring it's not even fun.

Jobs at later levels just mostly get arbitrary gauges that they dump resources into on one ability most of the time. Healers have the same rotation from level 4 as they do in level 90, every expansion just seems to remove things more than adding things, hell. I find WAR more fun at level 60 than at level 70-90 because i actually need to consider my gauge more at earlier levels.

Aren't jobs supposed to become harder and have more to them at later levels as players learn, adapt and master their toolkits one piece at a time while leveling up? Apparently not

[Quor]

Aren't jobs supposed to become harder and have more to them at later levels as players learn, adapt and master their toolkits one piece at a time while leveling up? Apparently not

That used to be part of the underlying design direction but it feels like something changed recently. Yoshi P. once famously said in the NoClip interview that he wanted to introduce choice into resource management, using an anecdote of 1.0 game design where players would just use the most powerful available spell because MP was essentially an infinite resource.

Of course, looking at the state of Kenki now, it's clear that such a belief no longer seems to hold sway, what with how the removal of Kaiten killed what choice still remained in terms of SAM resource management.

This is a big part of why we can't stop even if SAM is reverted. The direction the game is going is not one that will be healthy in the long term. The jobs need depth to them in order to keep people interested in the core gameplay available. Yes, this stuff isn't the *only* part of the game, but it's a pretty major part of it nonetheless. This race to make everything as simple and accessible as possible is going to come back to hurt SE badly if they keep pursuing it.

[AsiTsurugi]

That used to be part of the underlying design direction but it feels like something changed recently. Yoshi P. once famously said in the NoClip interview that he wanted to introduce choice into resource management, using an anecdote of 1.0 game design where players would just use the most powerful available spell because MP was essentially an infinite resource.

Of course, looking at the state of Kenki now, it's clear that such a belief no longer seems to hold sway, what with how the removal of Kaiten killed what choice still remained in terms of SAM resource management.

This is a big part of why we can't stop even if SAM is reverted. The direction the game is going is not one that will be healthy in the long term. The jobs need depth to them in order to keep people interested in the core gameplay available. Yes, this stuff isn't the *only* part of the game, but it's a pretty major part of it nonetheless. This race to make everything as simple and accessible as possible is going to come back to hurt SE badly if they keep pursuing it.

To be fair, the developers consider "leveling" to be valid "content" enough to neglect open world entirely, and they further dumb down classes so even that "content" is pointless. Question is, do they even intend to not shut the game down in a year or two at this point? Because all of this, current lack of meaningful gameplay content and job design direction for the past expansion and a half, seems to be the devs way of emphasizing: "Yeah we don't care enough to maintain servers for this, or a healthy population because we are going to make a single-player only mode soon. And we have decided that single-player entails not having any sort of gameplay challenge whatsoever, since that's the audience we are targeting. Anyone else can be thrown under the bus as long as they keep giving us subscription fees for what is basically a hub game masquerading as an MMO."

Obviously, I could be "too emotional" (and consequently wrong to perceive this) at being ill-treated as a customer despite spending more than my fair share on this game, but nothing in the past 2.5 years that I have played tell me that the devs actually care for this game to exist for another "10 years" like Yoshida wants us to believe.

[Karious]

Ten years feels like a stretch with the way job design is going. What else do they plan on removing from the game to reach a wider audience?

[AndreasSolaria]

I just spend my time with reaper..and still don't buy this "button bloat" reaper have lot of skills, hells dragoon too..
Anyway i dont belive they gonna bring back kaiten maybe kaiten is gonna be a buff or they gonna put new skill, or just buff the iajutsus
Tenkka gouken aoe change is fine but is nerfed
There's no ptr for us to test for me huge mistake
I just tried to finish my bis for samurai like i said before in foruns (Yes i try my best to fight too) i made some runs on this new alliance raid, my skills doesnt had any impact. Sadly we have to wait next live letter

[ShanaShirayuki]

I've been gearing up my NIN in preparation for 6.2 just in case the devs double down on these asinine changes. NIN right now feels what SAM was before 6.1; fast-paced and exciting (even with the travesty that is TCJ). However if these are the changes they want for all classes; I'm not too thrilled on the prospect regardless.

[CelestiCer]

Don't worry our concerns for the job changes we received will be addressed...

" Oh wait! " gotta acknowledge Housing Lottery F up and
" Oh wait! " gotta apologize for that and
" Oh wait! " PvP hacking issue and
" Oh wait! " another Mogstation update and surely after that then
" Oh wait! " Lewd Aventure plates! well gotta acknowledge that and then we finally
" Oh wait! " another RMT issue addressed! well Square idk as I read that I was in Ul'Dah just seeing another RMT shout and
" Oh wait! " BLM PVP overtuned? well gotta address that and


Well at this point I am trying to control my body fluids, because...


" Oh wait! " EMOTE Teacup Mogstation update wow well that really will
" Oh wait! " Addressing another RMT update, even though I still read RMT shouts in-game
" Oh wait! " ...Creating New Jobs is really difficult, whah!? gotta really announce that and then...
" Oh wait! " LYSE Attire and now we can really really " Oh wait! "