Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[darkdyllon]

The devs were unhappy because they have trouble balancing samurai's damage profile.

Yup exactly this.
the devs had no idea (or atleast the team in charge for Samurai balance) how to deal with it, the same that the team wants to slowly go away from crit comps.
I get that there are challenges when it comes to balancing EVERY job around EVERY piece of content, nobody can blame the devs there, but it's THEIR job to make it work regardless, it's not like FF14 literally has that community of "if you communicate with us we'll understand" like when Endwalker got delayed, it sucked (a lot but thankfully i could reschedule my off week) but most were "don't worry about it"

it doesn't help that the people doing the job testing apparently can't become "too good" at their respective job or have to fear being removed from that project. (look at the healer tester, he/she was too good, is now replaced ... to appease the bottom of the barrel players) and Yoshi's stance on more engaging healer gameplay being "if you want more engagement out of healers, go play ultimate"

Hope for the LL of 6.2 they'll adress SAMs outcry, he said it won't be happening sooner which is another bottleneck that should be resolved, especially a game on this scale ... WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY MANAGER WHO IS SUPPOSE TO BE OUR LINK TO THE DEVS?!
why not have an CM for each language (or 1 in many languages atleast, that could feed this info to an translator who then feeds it to Yoshi, who then feeds it to his team, who then feeds it back to him and back to the CM back to us, tada, an feedback loop)
Doesn't help the fact that Yoshi stated that his team watches FF14 youtube content (which is fine on itself) but then asks CONTENT CREATORS to pay someone to translate their video into Japanese so that they can understand it. (drakgamestein did this recently on his video about improving mount farm and it comes off as "we can't be bothered learning another language, learn ours instead")

[KurenXIV]

Yup exactly this.
the devs had no idea (or atleast the team in charge for Samurai balance) how to deal with it, the same that the team wants to slowly go away from crit comps.
I get that there are challenges when it comes to balancing EVERY job around EVERY piece of content, nobody can blame the devs there, but it's THEIR job to make it work regardless, it's not like FF14 literally has that community of "if you communicate with us we'll understand" like when Endwalker got delayed, it sucked (a lot but thankfully i could reschedule my off week) but most were "don't worry about it"

To add to this, I've said it before but its not like this didn't exist oh I don't know . . . for the entire existence of Samurai. Now all of a sudden they were like "oh this is bad . . ." which is insane. They should have had this in mind FOR EW and made SAM different FOR EW and then players could decide then and there if they want to continue with the job.

Instead we all gear up and are having a great time only for this to happen. It's just sad.

[YukiB]

To add to this, I've said it before but its not like this didn't exist oh I don't know . . . for the entire existence of Samurai. Now all of a sudden they were like "oh this is bad . . ." which is insane. They should have had this in mind FOR EW and made SAM different FOR EW and then players could decide then and there if they want to continue with the job.

Instead we all gear up and are having a great time only for this to happen. It's just sad.

Not only did they not address it with EW, they made it WORSE by giving us a 2400 potency one-two punch with Kaiten+Ogi and Kaeshi Ogi. Then their solution to RPR damage dominance (which they should have seen coming long before launch) was to buff Midare/Kaeshi and Ogi/Kaeshi, the biggest contributors to the crit variance issue, by 10% and 12.5% respectively.

If they had given us another oGCD to weave instead of Ogi, and if they had buffed our basic combos instead of Midare/Ogi, we never would have been in this situation in the first place.

The job devs seem so directionless. They keep digging holes, then leveling the whole field to get themselves out of them.

[Quor]

Not only did they not address it with EW, they made it WORSE by giving us a 2400 potency one-two punch with Kaiten+Ogi and Kaeshi Ogi. Then their solution to RPR damage dominance (which they should have seen coming long before launch) was to buff Midare/Kaeshi and Ogi/Kaeshi, the biggest contributors to the crit variance issue, by 10% and 12.5% respectively.

If they had given us another oGCD to weave instead of Ogi, and if they had buffed our basic combos instead of Midare/Ogi, we never would have been in this situation in the first place.

The job devs seem so directionless. They keep digging holes, then leveling the whole field to get themselves out of them.

While the extra charges on Kaeshi and Meikyo were nice at the get-go, the reasoning that's been used in regards to damage variance baffles me. This is entirely a hole that the devs dug themselves into. They are the ones who shunted so much of SAM's damage into the same small window. They literally brought this upon themselves, and their solution is not to re-evaluate changes made very recently, but rather to remove a core part of the job that's been in it since inception?

The mind boggles. I've said it so many times before and I'm sure I'll be saying it again, for some time yet, but to call these changes "half-baked" or "phoned-in" or "tone deaf" is an understatement. There's actual literal ignorance of the job behind this. An ignorance that is almost malicious in it's severity.

[Roxus]

I see some people have brought up Ultimate so I'll give you my personal experience from today. Our other melee plays DRG/NIN. He went DRG today and we will wipe to Thordan's enrage if a dps messes up. He swapped to NIN like he originally was and we kill Thordan during his second swing even with a damage down and dps death. This is without pots so we save them for Nidprog, and our comp isn't an optimal comp - this is just to define how much of a difference NIN's burst brings to the Ultimate.

You can reason for the developers, but when you look at Ninja's performance you can't say there aren't other jobs with a clear problem in this Ultimate (they even created one in the same patch as killing SAM). As for another example, having Dancer will make targetable meteors a joke even with deaths. Their "fix" didn't fix anything aside removing one job from being considered for most groups. If you have to change several jobs to accommodate for one piece of content, I will respectfully disagree that it's well designed.

People overseas have started compromising/making suggestions on things like removing cast bars (no thank you), turn shinten into old warrior's fell cleave stacks (no thank you), and keeping kaiten removed in exchange for the addition of guaranteed direct hits (no). I want the changes reverted in full and for them to work on it from scratch if it is that important to rework a previously perfectly functional job. If only they would work on jobs that actually needed the help, god forbid.

[darkdyllon]

I see some people have brought up Ultimate so I'll give you my personal experience from today. Our other melee plays DRG/NIN. He went DRG today and we will wipe to Thordan's enrage if a dps messes up. He swapped to NIN like he originally was and we kill Thordan during his second swing even with a damage down and dps death. This is without pots so we save them for Nidprog, and our comp isn't an optimal comp - this is just to define how much of a difference NIN's burst brings to the Ultimate.

You can reason for the developers, but when you look at Ninja's performance you can't say there aren't other jobs with a clear problem in this Ultimate (they even created one in the same patch as killing SAM). As for another example, having Dancer will make targetable meteors a joke even with deaths. Their "fix" didn't fix anything aside removing one job from being considered for most groups. If you have to change several jobs to accommodate for one piece of content, I will respectfully disagree that it's well designed.

People overseas have started compromising/making suggestions on things like removing cast bars (no thank you), turn shinten into old warrior's fell cleave stacks (no thank you), and keeping kaiten removed in exchange for the addition of guaranteed direct hits (no). I want the changes reverted in full and for them to work on it from scratch if it is that important to rework a previously perfectly functional job. If only they would work on jobs that actually needed the help, god forbid.

agreed on all, the problem is that this is just basically an tactic used.
"we're listening" ... but they're waiting since they know that either SAMs are just gonna cope and continue playing the job, or quit the job and stop complaining about it.
quite sad, i'm not hopeful, but we'll see in the 6.2 live letter since he said that they would be listening for changes for 6.2. (Although an literal revert of SAM would fix it, but details)

[Karious]

I swapped to Dragoon to finally start leveling it. I noticed that Blood of the Dragon was taken away at some point. I remember it was an ability that gave a potency increase on jump and spineshatter dive by 30%. I must have missed when they removed it but it feels very much like a change in-line with Samurai. Taking control of potency increases out of the players hands. It very much put me off from wanting to play that class as well... :/

[YukiB]

I swapped to Dragoon to finally start leveling it. I noticed that Blood of the Dragon was taken away at some point. I remember it was an ability that gave a potency increase on jump and spineshatter dive by 30%. I must have missed when they removed it but it feels very much like a change in-line with Samurai. Taking control of potency increases out of the players hands. It very much put me off from wanting to play that class as well... :/

It's not really the same. Kaiten was an ability that had a resource cost and was manually used before big attacks. Blood of the Dragon was a skill with no cost and, at high levels, a cooldown shorter than its duration that was extended during the melee combo so it was effectively a passive. There was no control involved, because you used it once at the start of the fight and that's it. More like NIN's Huton.

Still sucks to lose it, honestly, because it didn't require any effort to keep up and it looked cool. I wouldn't want NIN to lose Huton for the same reason.

[CelestiCer]

My Tinfoil hat is saying that Square found Samurai's playrate numbers to be to high and needed that to be distributed amongst the other classes. Failing to make all Jobs universally more equally enjoyable or equally complex? they just made it all just simpler easier dumber and less complex. Bonus Points? makes game balancing probably easier ontop of it. This is my Tinfoil hat take, however... due to my attempt to cope with the situation... I don't even find it farfetched anymore, this was all an inside job. Then again I am coping here.

[Karious]

It's not really the same. Kaiten was an ability that had a resource cost and was manually used before big attacks. Blood of the Dragon was a skill with no cost and, at high levels, a cooldown shorter than its duration that was extended during the melee combo so it was effectively a passive. There was no control involved, because you used it once at the start of the fight and that's it. More like NIN's Huton.

Still sucks to lose it, honestly, because it didn't require any effort to keep up and it looked cool. I wouldn't want NIN to lose Huton for the same reason.

Well, yes, Kaiten is a much more involved skill. As a previous Samurai as my main DPS I don't know the exact particulars of other classes skills. Just feels like dumbing down in general. As you said, comparable to Huton. I'm not super knowledgable in all the classes but it definitely feels like dumbing down and homogenization across the board.