Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[cjbeagle]

Been a while, but I'm here to say that I still don't like the changes and Kaiten is still on my bars waiting to be revived.

Edit: Oh, also shift some of the potencies from the rotation back into Midare and Ogi, I hate that change too.

Been a while, but I'm here to say that I still don't like the changes and samurai is still on my bars waiting to be revived.

Edit: Oh, also shift some of the potencies from the rotation back into Midare and Ogi, I hate that change too.

Edit: Also also, revert Tenka Goken back to a cone.

[Roxus]

Hey folks.

Been busy with DSR, as I have an obligation to my static. Also, you know, 10-11 hour workdays. After playing this content on Scholar, the nerf to Expedient makes a lot of sense. Yet another point these changes were all for the sake of the Ultimate. I can't be convinced otherwise, the DPS checks are almost nonexistent as long as you are pressing buttons. Not to mention there are other "problem jobs" for this Ultimate.

As for player opinions overseas over the past few days: The exact same things brought up. The only difference being more talking about being forced to change jobs, and double standards taking place in balance. Samurai are fighting on the forums instead of in the game for their job. Parties are excluding Samurai again, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. After the small lull people are speaking up yet again. All for the sake of convenience...for the developers.

[cjbeagle]

All for the sake of convenience...for the developers.

I still call bullshit on the idea that Kaiten was restricting their design space so much that they had to remove it. How hard is it to change Kaiten to only affect Iaijutsu and Ogi Namikiri if they didn't want it to affect future weaponskills?

And even if they did need to remove Kaiten to make room for some new ability, why wouldn't they remove Kaiten and introduce the new ability simultaneously? None of it makes sense.

If you don't understand the rationale for an action, you can usually assume the intent based on the result. If that holds true in this case, then samurai didn't get dumbed-down as fallout of removing Kaiten and flattening potency, rather Kaiten was removed and potency flattened specifically to achieve that result.

[Quor]

I still call bullshit on the idea that Kaiten was restricting their design space so much that they had to remove it. How hard is it to change Kaiten to only affect Iaijutsu and Ogi Namikiri if they didn't want it to affect future weaponskills?

And even if they did need to remove Kaiten to make room for some new ability, why wouldn't they remove Kaiten and introduce the new ability simultaneously? None of it makes sense.

If you don't understand the rationale for an action, you can usually assume the intent based on the result. If that holds true in this case, then samurai didn't get dumbed-down as fallout of removing Kaiten and flattening potency, rather Kaiten was removed and potency flattened specifically to achieve that result.

Agreed. The change was lazy. Re-balancing could have addressed the issue just fine, either cutting the potency boost or through some other means that preserved the gameplay flow. Outright removing it is the single most lazy thing they could have done.

[darkdyllon]

That's what I've been told, too - that the Kaiten removal has something to do with making future changes easier.

Yoshi had stated that the DPS fluctuation in SAM was too big and that it was getting harder and harder to balance around all of SAMs kit (kinda weird since balancing around an static 50% increase shouldn't be hard?)
so they went the "just axe the skill that's giving us problems while giving them auto crit to those skills so our 2nd issue is also auto solved" (they want to go away from crit, or atleast redesign it)
the thing is, if they waited till 7.0, a new expansion a new SAM, it would've been fine, sure the removal of Kaiten would still hurt ... but we could've gotten something new, something not happening mid expansion.

Hope they do something about it in 6.2 as they've stated that they listen to feedback.
wish there was an more direct feedback loop between players of a job and their designers, just feels weird that a few people who never will play a job more than the thousands of players who play that job don't get a say with what direction a job takes.
Plenty of actual helpful feedback to all their problems have been given, like instead of increasing the next weaponskill by 50% it would make it 100% DH/crit, maybe give that an slightly higher modifier to the DH/Crit formula to offset the 50% thing (or at that point some potency buffs, this would be a scenario where potency buffs could work, not as an insult)

[Fireon999]

I just dropped the game as promised, when i saw 6.11 patchnotes. Still have
week of subscribtion, but it's impossible to play anymore. Now i only visit forum to support your posts guys.

[KYuuma]

like instead of increasing the next weaponskill by 50% it would make it 100% DH/crit

This would still hurt the synergy between SAM and crit boosting raid skills. The animation would stay though, so that's still miles better than what we got.

[YukiB]

This would still hurt the synergy between SAM and crit boosting raid skills. The animation would stay though, so that's still miles better than what we got.

It would, but I'm kind of warming to the idea. Bringing the kenki cost of Kaiten back into play will give them the opportunity to buff Shinten damage again, and if balanced correctly that might actually allow for an alternate burst phase with a crit comp party. With Devilment, Battle Litany, and Chain Strategem up, a Shinten would be worth more potency than a crit/dh Kaiten. So during burst we would dump kenki into Shinten, and outside of burst continue to use Kaiten.

That sounds kind of interesting, but personally I'd just like to go back to 6.08.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

I have accepted that the auto crit is sadly here to stay. I disagree with it since it feels like Sam is getting singled out and punished and it should have come with a crit rework but I can live with it IF they redistribute the potencies back into Midare and Ogi and make those number higher so it's a more dopamine giving crit. I think that crit buffs like devilment and litany should buff auto crit moves even more than they do already to make up for the loss in crit chance increases that other jobs like MNK and RPR can benefit from more. It's unacceptable that jobs like WAR and SAM lose out so heavily on certain party buffs. Something has to be done.

Kaiten absolutely must come back. Yoshi P's reasoning to remove the skill doesn't hold up under scrutiny. They say it's because kaiten limits the skills they can add later but there are multiple easy solutions to this. Either make it so that kaiten only buffs iajutsu and ogi, which would be completely fine since that's what it's used for already, or if they add a new skill they can easily just put in the tooltip "not affected by kaiten". Either way they should have waited until 7.0 when they actually add new skills! It's unfair to SAM players to gut job mechanics early in an expansion needlessly when the job was popular.

The conal change to tenka is also puzzling. Why does reaper get three conals and when it's a new job this expansion if they have to remove it from SAM? Are they anti conal aoe or not? Machinist, RDM, Bard, DNC still have them. It makes no sense. Also adding a controversial change like this when SAM also got two changes they must have known the playerbase wouldn't all love seems very unfair to SAM players. Read the room! We are paying customers and it seems tone deaf to subject us to all these bad changes in the span of one update.

[Xenon_S]

Just want to point out that currently, according to the fflogs world race page, out of the top 20 progressed groups for DSR ultimate, the number of SAM is... 0

Who would've thought that gutting a job's party synergy and making it to be unfun to play would turn off even the top end players. /s