Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[Roxus]

Hey guys. With 6.11 approaching, users are once more speaking again to reiterate their points. Job comparisons have been common now and the fact we're all getting the homogenization treatment is widely discussed. Namely the fact that we feel like a Monk.

A good point brought up, it's simple to say "change jobs" or "it doesn't matter". For Ultimate, you want as little self added problems as possible. It isn't a minor time investment. If you stay Samurai for whatever reason, if no one changes jobs and you have anyone with critical buffs, you're already making it harder for yourself. Or will you tell your Bard, Scholar, and/or Dragoon to change jobs for your sake? What if they aren't even comfortable or don't have the missing gear on the other job? Then instead, you want the Samurai to change? What if they don't have the gear or are not comfortable either? Let's say you have it sorted and you'll take the risk. You wipe to a DPS check after hours of reaching that point repeatedly. What do you think people will blame first? It's just simply not a good time to implement the changes no matter the reasoning.

There was a Famitsu interview where YoshiP said there was a risk changing job balance right before Ultimate. He acknowledged it, yet he still did it. Paraphrased, "It may not be accepted very well for those who are trying to master their jobs for the upcoming challenge." He goes on to say he is confident we can adapt to these changes and that he wants to make the environment as comfortable as possible.

I don't think he was lying, I think he just doesn't realize how these jobs play out. "Changes" for Samurai, yet people straight up call it a nerf. Because it is. You can downplay it all you want. It's still a nerf, and people are okay with that part and want our identity and rotation back. I understand people are getting angrier, but don't throw insults at the developers, it won't get your point across. Reminder to give them the feedback they asked for.

[cjbeagle]

There was a Famitsu interview where YoshiP said there was a risk changing job balance right before Ultimate. He acknowledged it, yet he still did it. Paraphrased, "It may not be accepted very well for those who are trying to master their jobs for the upcoming challenge." He goes on to say he is confident we can adapt to these changes and that he wants to make the environment as comfortable as possible.

They lowered samurai's skill floor and ceiling, so "adapting to the changes" isn't something anyone is likely struggling with - the struggle is that they butchered the job so thoroughly that a lot of samurai mains no longer want to play it regardless of its dps output.

We aren't struggling to adapt to the new samurai kit - we're struggling to find a new dps to main, and unless you happen to like monk, that means you're way behind on gear.

Some may think it's foolish to switch mains over these changes, but that's a testament to how much we dislike these changes, and on top of that, it's the most pure form of feedback: Samurai was my main - it was my favorite out of all the jobs, and after the 6.1 changes, now it isn't.

It's important to figure out the details, but that feedback alone is enough to warrant concern - whatever it was that people liked about that job, the changes degraded it. Nothing highlights bad changes like when people quit playing a job, activity, game, etc.

[Quor]

I don't think he was lying, I think he just doesn't realize how these jobs play out. "Changes" for Samurai, yet people straight up call it a nerf. Because it is. You can downplay it all you want. It's still a nerf, and people are okay with that part and want our identity and rotation back. I understand people are getting angrier, but don't throw insults at the developers, it won't get your point across. Reminder to give them the feedback they asked for.

I think this is very important because it is an outright nerf. The ridiculous math from the Balance will say it's "only" 3% in a crit comp but anyone with eyes can tell you that a guaranteed crit that's has 33% less potency than before is a major nerf. SAM damage has been gutted in the pursuit of some misbegotten idea of "smoothing out damage variance" and the consequence of it is that the job feels and plays worse than it did before.

Constant, unrelenting feedback is needed. And not just SAM either; we take back SAM and then we continue on to address the larger issue with job design that has long-since plagued FF14. Plenty of other DPS jobs have issues that need to be addressed and the problems that tanks and healers feel from an engagement and moment-to-moment perspective in regards to their dps rotation (or lack thereof in the case of healers) is a major issue that needs to be fixed. Job accessibility is fine but the balancing team has gone too far. Sacrificing actual depth and fun for ease of use is the death knell for game longevity.

[Roxus]

I think this is very important because it is an outright nerf. The ridiculous math from the Balance will say it's "only" 3% in a crit comp but anyone with eyes can tell you that a guaranteed crit that's has 33% less potency than before is a major nerf. SAM damage has been gutted in the pursuit of some misbegotten idea of "smoothing out damage variance" and the consequence of it is that the job feels and plays worse than it did before.

Constant, unrelenting feedback is needed. And not just SAM either; we take back SAM and then we continue on to address the larger issue with job design that has long-since plagued FF14. Plenty of other DPS jobs have issues that need to be addressed and the problems that tanks and healers feel from an engagement and moment-to-moment perspective in regards to their dps rotation (or lack thereof in the case of healers) is a major issue that needs to be fixed. Job accessibility is fine but the balancing team has gone too far. Sacrificing actual depth and fun for ease of use is the death knell for game longevity.

The calculations are also only talking about the average. The ceiling you lose is 10-12%. If people are so focused on numbers, you wouldn't be fussing over the average, you'd be looking at how high you can get, which is how JP views the changes.

Agreed. Even if Samurai gets changed back, it will only be a matter of time before they try again. The idea to remove anything problematic instead of attempting to fix it without half-heartedly increasing mere potency numbers needs to change. Enmity, Cross Role, CC, Arenas, I could go on but you get the point. I get that they are afraid ever since Heavensward, but enough is enough.

[forsakee]

New to game, cleared p4s, got full BIS for samurai was excited to prog DSR! Had to re-roll reaper

[KurenXIV]

They lowered samurai's skill floor and ceiling, so "adapting to the changes" isn't something anyone is likely struggling with - the struggle is that they butchered the job so thoroughly that a lot of samurai mains no longer want to play it regardless of its dps output.

We aren't struggling to adapt to the new samurai kit - we're struggling to find a new dps to main, and unless you happen to like monk, that means you're way behind on gear.

Some may think it's foolish to switch mains over these changes, but that's a testament to how much we dislike these changes, and on top of that, it's the most pure form of feedback: Samurai was my main - it was my favorite out of all the jobs, and after the 6.1 changes, now it isn't.

It's important to figure out the details, but that feedback alone is enough to warrant concern - whatever it was that people liked about that job, the changes degraded it. Nothing highlights bad changes like when people quit playing a job, activity, game, etc.

This. This. This.

I've switched from SAM main after having mained it since it was released some 5 years ago to NIN. I am SO FAR behind on gear now, gear that I was going to upgrade through the new 24 man to iLvl 600 is now useless as far as I am concerned.

I'd grind tomes faster but there's still the ridiculously low tome cap of 450 per week so there's MANY more weeks of grinding ahead.

It's the most blatantly disrespectful display to players I can remember. I've mentioned this in another thread I made about this but if they made this change for EW release at LEAST we wouldn't have spent all our time gearing up our main. Our main which, for all intents and purposes was perfectly fine.

The developers deserve every ounce of hate and anger they get from this. What they did and when they did it was totally unacceptable and done without warning. Shame on them, they should ABSOLUTELY know better by this point.

[Ruminous]

It's why I've often said we need to be able to get refunds on gear if massive changes were implemented to a role. It's not fun having to collect a whole new set you never anticipated needing for another job. As it stands, I'm forced to play sam for the first week of dragonsong because I just flat out don't have the gear ready for nin.

I mean, I'd rather they not treat us like beta testers and throw in half thought out and very poorly implemented changes, and actually test them to see how it'd feel for people. But if we are going to be beta testing their bad ideas, at least give us a mitigating factor in being able to return gear we're not going to use. You can note that down in your log as "your changes are bad and you should feel bad," devs.

[cjbeagle]

Our main which, for all intents and purposes was perfectly fine.

This is the part that really blows my mind - I mean, yeah, the changes are also mind-blowingly bad, but really, who wanted this? Who asked for any change, let alone this one? Were any samurai mains complaining about the job? In my opinion it was beyond fine as it was - it was nigh ideal.

[xAFROx]

This is the part that really blows my mind - I mean, yeah, the changes are also mind-blowingly bad, but really, who wanted this? Who asked for any change, let alone this one? Were any samurai mains complaining about the job? In my opinion it was beyond fine as it was - it was nigh ideal.

Literally no one. The devs decided to do this as a sort of futureproofing the job for later revisions going forward. Presumably for the next expansion, but this is too soon and too sudden and too awful in the present. And if this is really the direction they intend to go moving forward, I think we at least deserve a proper explanation as to their intended reasons when the change has literally killed entire party comps right before stuff like ultimate.

I am not a high end player, so technically, I am not heavily impacted. But I am greatly dissatisfied with the only dps job I leveled to cap. I either need to go level something else for fun or prioritize tanking as GNB full time because I hardly play enough to power level other jobs

[Ceridwen]

Literally no one. The devs decided to do this as a sort of futureproofing the job for later revisions going forward. Presumably for the next expansion, but this is too soon and too sudden and too awful in the present. And if this is really the direction they intend to go moving forward, I think we at least deserve a proper explanation as to their intended reasons when the change has literally killed entire party comps right before stuff like ultimate.

I am not a high end player, so technically, I am not heavily impacted. But I am greatly dissatisfied with the only dps job I leveled to cap. I either need to go level something else for fun or prioritize tanking as GNB full time because I hardly play enough to power level other jobs

That's what I've been told, too - that the Kaiten removal has something to do with making future changes easier.

This makes me more nervous than I was - so it isn't just about button bloat, but a general direction. For that reason, among others, I think it's really important to keep at this, because it is reminding me unfavorably of other mmos I've played (I started ff in '16, so before that) - when the direction went from choice & talent trees with meaningful choices there, too, to an exceptionally bland, easy-for-all blob. Personally, I'd prefer MORE choices in my classes. I think the class I've liked best in any mmo was the old Burglar in LOTRO - it was feeble and slow but I had to make a choice with every hit, and I loved that. I'm not expecting that, or asking for it, but I surely do not want this game to go in the other direction, so that a lovely flowing class like the Samurai *was* becomes dull and boring.