Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[xAFROx]

As an AST you could give a DRK ewer and watch them clean up shop, alas both AST and DRK have changed too much for such a thing

I miss the card identities from old AST. Why they're all just 6 or 3% damage now is beyond me, but I was just starting to level it when that happened and decided 'nah, I want more thinking involved'

[Quor]

Increasing frustration between all communities, concerns that it is getting less and less productive. JP players start to wonder how the situation is in EN more. More feelings on how the job is "boring" or "not fun".

Glad to see the JP community echoing our own sentiments. We are all, as SAM players, united in a desire to see the fun and glory of our job returned to us. No compromise in this; the changes are reverted and that's that. Nothing less will suffice. If there is a bigger-picture-approach being utilized with the goal of some overhaul at a later date then let that overhaul come when it is finished. Do not introduce it in such a half-assed, piecemeal way such that you completely upend a fun, functional job, in the middle of an xpac, only two weeks prior to the newest ultimate being released. I don't even do ultimates, and have no plans to nor the patience to try, but I feel for any SAM player or static that has a SAM in it. This change completely throws job synergy out the window, to say nothing of the chore that SAM's have now in terms of retooling melds (or in many cases, swapping to a new main dps).

As an AST you could give a DRK ewer and watch them clean up shop, alas both AST and DRK have changed too much for such a thing

I remember when casters had Mana Shift. I used to troll my BLM friend as a DRK with Darkside active (which prevented gaining MP from any source but our weaponskills and abilities) by asking him to "toss me a Mana Shift." His reaction the first time was hilarious; "How the hell did you DODGE Mana Shift?!"

But putting that aside, it was nice knowing you could strategically turn Darkside off and have an AST hit you with Ewer, or a BLM in ice phase time a Mana Shift to give you a quick infusion of MP that you could then turn into damage. BLM was a great partner with DRK in 4-man's because DA+AB spam allowed a DRK to self-sustain for quite awhile in a big aoe pack, and Mana Shift was an easy oGCD for a BLM in ice phase to toss at his tank. Sure you had to turn Darkside off for a moment but that wasn't even a speed bump in the grand scheme of things.

[YukiB]

Hello all.

I'd like to summarize a couple things. Increasing frustration between all communities, concerns that it is getting less and less productive. JP players start to wonder how the situation is in EN more. More feelings on how the job is "boring" or "not fun". More comments on being a "Pure DPS". At this point we're all waiting for an answer.

The frustration of still not being addressed after they completely skipped over Samurai in the patch note reading, and saying they will further elaborate, and have not. This stems from them deciding to ignore the overwhelming feedback before the changes were implemented. Saying "For the future" is not enough. We can't see the future, and we see what is in the present. The community has given a lot of patience over the years regarding job design. I just want everyone to think about this. Money is one thing yes, but time is your most valuable resource. When they ask you to wait repeatedly, at some point you need to tell them to stop. Some people don't have that time, and we don't live forever. Telling people to take a break is just as insulting, they are here to convey their feelings because they trust you and want you to make the game better. They want to have fun with this game. If people did not care, they wouldn't be here complaining. I am not saying that every change for the better has to be instant, but it's been nothing but delays of completely ignoring the playerbase, an utter lack of transparency in this regard. Look what happens to the jobs that have reworks. Look at how barebones tanks and healers are. Our fight encounters don't even have any engagement besides damage now. Our job wasn't even in a bad spot, it's a forced change. For what? Are we really preparing the game to transition into the mobile market? Who knows at this point.

I want them to fix what they broke.

My fear is that their entire PR focus in the near future will be on putting out the housing lottery fire, and they'll conveniently disregard the concerns over job changes. 6.11 will come and go without another response. I certainly hope I'm wrong; my sub runs out in a couple weeks.

[CelestiCer]

My fear is that their entire PR focus in the near future will be on putting out the housing lottery fire, and they'll conveniently disregard the concerns over job changes. 6.11 will come and go without another response. I certainly hope I'm wrong; my sub runs out in a couple weeks.

My concerns are if Square wants to forcefully simplify FFXIV to accommodate another device like a Handheld Console and/or Mobile Phone.

Years ago maybe unthinkable, but technology improvement be like that. Suddenly it clicks, yeah high APM on a small device with tons of buttons? that makes no sense, you'd have to cut and trim many corners. Even though that hurts the current playerbase on PC and Controllers, game depth and complexity, if the board decided it makes money, what you gone do? Solution? " Over-Simplifying every Aspect of the Game ".

That's why the argument of " More/Less buttons doesn't mean better gameplay ", is flawed if said without context. FFXIV with just 5 buttons to spam press for our rotation/heal/mitigate/partyheal/engage/disengage/selfheal/Limitbreak, sounds like a... " Nightmare".

That's my tinfoil hat talking though, hoping that it's talking out of its.... hole? " BUTT ", who knows! I have trust issues, for a good reason... and I do not want to see our jobs be simplified for this reason at all.

[Roxus]

My fear is that their entire PR focus in the near future will be on putting out the housing lottery fire, and they'll conveniently disregard the concerns over job changes. 6.11 will come and go without another response. I certainly hope I'm wrong; my sub runs out in a couple weeks.

Oh no doubt that thought has crossed my mind. And it has also been brought up in all communities. You can't blame people for thinking that way really. I want to be hopeful they realize they were wrong, but from past experiences they are very stubborn in their vision. I'm concerned people want to compromise, as Quor said, there is only one solution and it is a full revert of the changes. They can add the Meikyo/Yaten/Third Eye changes later if they don't have time. Even if this was a part of a larger rework, no one will accept that rework if the foundation is no good either. They need to accept that.

I am going to commit to the new Ultimate as my last piece of content if they refuse to change it back. And it won't be on the job I love most and I will despise it because I was never given the option. I mean the timing was bad too and everyone knows it. Players who don't do Ultimate understood that.

I apologize if I don't respond to all of you individually, just know I do read all your comments and give them a like. Who knows if they use that in their feedback collection lol.

[Spiderllama]

Hello all.

I'd like to summarize a couple things. Increasing frustration between all communities, concerns that it is getting less and less productive. JP players start to wonder how the situation is in EN more. More feelings on how the job is "boring" or "not fun". More comments on being a "Pure DPS". At this point we're all waiting for an answer.

The frustration of still not being addressed after they completely skipped over Samurai in the patch note reading, and saying they will further elaborate, and have not. This stems from them deciding to ignore the overwhelming feedback before the changes were implemented. Saying "For the future" is not enough. We can't see the future, and we see what is in the present. The community has given a lot of patience over the years regarding job design. I just want everyone to think about this. Money is one thing yes, but time is your most valuable resource. When they ask you to wait repeatedly, at some point you need to tell them to stop. Some people don't have that time, and we don't live forever. Telling people to take a break is just as insulting, they are here to convey their feelings because they trust you and want you to make the game better. They want to have fun with this game. If people did not care, they wouldn't be here complaining. I am not saying that every change for the better has to be instant, but it's been nothing but delays of completely ignoring the playerbase, an utter lack of transparency in this regard. Look what happens to the jobs that have reworks. Look at how barebones tanks and healers are. Our fight encounters don't even have any engagement besides damage now. Our job wasn't even in a bad spot, it's a forced change. For what? Are we really preparing the game to transition into the mobile market? Who knows at this point.

I want them to fix what they broke.

Here I was thinking I was the only person that IRL felt sad about these changes. It's been a frustrating last week or so and I'm so glad to see others who are just wanting SE to say something. I'm a bit concerned honestly that I care this much but hey, I like this game.

[BalinS]

Like many here, I dont usually post on the official forums. The recent changes to SAM have made me want to speak up. 6.08 SAM felt great. It rewarded proper resource management with "big booms". The kaiten animation was by far the best flourish before an iaijutsu and just made SAM feel great to play. True, SAM dps numbers are largely unchanged (except for a meager 3% nerf), but it's not about the numbers. The changes are completely unacceptable. If action bloat is the issue, the changes listed through the forum replies are a great starting point. After reading through I noticed no one mentioned a, in my opinion anyhow, useless action. The action that literally takes you out of the fight for 15 seconds for very little gain, Meditate. Meditate at one point worked well for phase changes, but not so much anymore. Iaijutsu give stacks of meditation, all weaponskills give kenki, Meditate just seems like an extra button that doesn't matter anymore.
Just my 2 gil.

[xAFROx]

Like many here, I dont usually post on the official forums. The recent changes to SAM have made me want to speak up. 6.08 SAM felt great. It rewarded proper resource management with "big booms". The kaiten animation was by far the best flourish before an iaijutsu and just made SAM feel great to play. True, SAM dps numbers are largely unchanged (except for a meager 3% nerf), but it's not about the numbers. The changes are completely unacceptable. If action bloat is the issue, the changes listed through the forum replies are a great starting point. After reading through I noticed no one mentioned a, in my opinion anyhow, useless action. The action that literally takes you out of the fight for 15 seconds for very little gain, Meditate. Meditate at one point worked well for phase changes, but not so much anymore. Iaijutsu give stacks of meditation, all weaponskills give kenki, Meditate just seems like an extra button that doesn't matter anymore.
Just my 2 gil.

Meditate is primarily something to do during downtime. But I will agree that 9 times out of 10, you're probably about to cap meditation stacks when that occurs.

Not saying it isn't useless, just mentioning what it was intended for, like Anatman on monk or..... actually, that's also a bad skill and I don't think there's anything else like it that channels other than dancer's improv.

....damn, what a useless skill in most cases. But I still like pressing it. It gives me focus and makes me look cool for being still

[geebster]

I created a forum account to discuss the SAM changes in the week before they were released. Sadly it seems they arent earnest about taking player feedback, or about posting that long form explanation post Yoshi said they would about SAM/NIN. Many people who dont play SAM have voiced their position that "well they've done this to other classes in the past (healers, DRK, SMN, etc) so SAM players shouldnt whine about the changes". This is wholly illogical. If it was wrong to ignore player feedback in the past on those changes and the outrage those caused, then surely it continues to be wrong to not take player feedback into consideration. FFXIV is a GAME and is meant to be played for FUN. If player enjoyment is affected negatively by a change, dev stubbornness and refusal to address, discuss, or fix said issues is a PROBLEM. Blizzard did this all the time - they "knew better" and made changes players didnt want and refused to change them back. However, Blizzard at least does blue posts - long form posts explaining and discussing changes with players. We havent seen that from SE. If players are having less fun and its a widespread issue, they should properly explain what problem they addressed, why it couldnt have been done a plethora of other ways, and what they plan to do about it moving forward. Implementing an unpopular change then giving radio silence on the issue, stubbornly sticking to your guns over and over again is not a recipe for long term player retention or trust.

People seem to forget that for nearly 2 decades Blizzard was a beloved, trusted dev that players put so much faith into. Changes that seemed or felt bad were chalked up to "well the devs are doing their best, they are good guys, so lets not act like the sky is falling". People loved the devs until...they didnt. I really really like YoshiP and the devs, but that love and trust isnt an infinite resource. At some point they will have to do a better job of actively discussing and addressing concerns with players and not making pronouncements from on high, or there will come a time people will stop giving them tons of rope and leeway to work with.

[Runeslayer]

You know, on paper this specific change wouldn't have garnered as much pushback as it is if you think about it, and I was sitting here thinking about why. Is it just because the SAM players are the most vocal? I thought perhaps, but eventually my thoughts ended up at:

No, this is the logical conclusion of a grander longstanding issue of class homogenization and simplification across the board. This is merely the dam bursting.
That meme of the grim reaper knocking on doors gutting jobs before it is a wholly accurate portrayal of how I see this entire situation.

Job after job has been retouched and reworked to the overall detriment of what people enjoyed about the job in the first place. Summoner now has flavor but it's mechanically uninteresting and I've heard that flavor doesn't feel earned. Dark Knight is neither mechanically nor visually interesting, and until recently had to work against its own design just to perform well. It performs well, but it feels like crap doing so with baffling design choices that remained for YEARS. Samurai is currently going through this fiasco, with the removal of kaiten and autocrits the iaijutsu has lost much of it's impact and whatever kenki management SAM had had been practically wiped away in favor of 'hit poke button when light up' low IQ playstyle.

I even hear that Dragoons are fearful they'll be next, as their class is probably as good as it'll get with the 6.1 changes and they really don't need much more. 6.2 has me and other DRGs I know DREADING the potential gutting.

Yoshi P, I know that you and your team try and work hard to please everyone...in pleasing everyone, you please no one though and hints have constantly been dropping that your balance team doesn't clearly understand what your players like about your jobs. Defend the designers all you want, shift blame onto yourself, but you need to step back and really take a look at what we're all saying.