Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[Roxus]

So there have been talks of changing Midare Setsugekka to a Multi-hit skill, similar to Dream Within a Dream. Some people seem open to the idea. Of course, all the suggestions given involve rolling back to 6.08 before changing Samurai further.

I'd like to add my own silly ideas (on top of incorporating some good ideas I've seen here), though it's mostly for fun while waiting for YoshiP's promised response.

Third Eye: Duration changed to 6 seconds. Changes to Higan on successful mitigation.
Higan: Grants a regen to self.
Seigan: Reintroduced. Now grants a Meditation stack on use. 55s CD.

Enhanced Tsubame-gaeshi: Removed
Enhanced Meikyo Shisui: Removed

Senei and Guren: Replaces Shinten and Kyuten when using Ikishoten.
Gyoten: Changed to allow use without a target. Dashes a set distance forward. 0 Cost outside of combat.
Meditate: (added) Grants and refreshes Fugetsu and Fuka periodically.
Ikishoten: (added) Changes to Ogi Namikiri on use.
Shoha: Shoha 2 merged into this skill with AOE fall off.
Tsubame-gaeshi: Changed to trait. Adds two extra attacks (lines) to Iaijutsus.

Hissatsu:Shinsoku: Weaponskill. 55s CD & 20(?) Kenki Cost. Sheathe your katana and concentrate, unleashing an upward strike followed by a side slash. Detonates Higanbana and grants 1 Meditation stack.
Hyosetsu: Your next Yukikaze will change to Hyosetsu after using Shoha. Upgraded Yukikaze with AOE falloff, does not require Hakaze.

It's definitely not made with any balance kept in mind. I also dislike the extra charges, so I made up some things that could replace them. Numbers would have to be adjusted accordingly, but the reasoning given by JP for Multi-hit attacks is so the numbers don't scale out of control. It also keeps to the theme of the naming conventions. At least that way, the Iaijutsus won't be hitting for the same as your regular rotation, which is frankly stupid.

In the end it's just for fun while we pass the time. Here's hoping to some news before the start of next week. Oh and most importantly, revert to 6.08 Samurai first and foremost. Have a good night.

[NotReallyMistral]

I gotta say, i really like the idea of senei/guren replacing shinten/kyuten on ikishoten. Reduces button bloat while still keeping that whole bit working as is and doesn't obstruct anything in terms of rotation. We already get Ikishoten before those two bigger skill so it wouldn't require much in restructuring in terms of when we get the skills. Also, I vote for that Shoha change too since that is the most natural change they could've done when they introduced shoha 2. Still boggles the mind on why it's a separate button.

Also, i hope they don't keep sam at this state. Hope they say more about this soon because right now, pvp sam feels more like a sam (with the big skills having that ooomph factor in terms of damage) than pve sam with our wet noodle sticks.

[Edweena]

I gotta say, i really like the idea of senei/guren replacing shinten/kyuten on ikishoten. Reduces button bloat while still keeping that whole bit working as is and doesn't obstruct anything in terms of rotation. We already get Ikishoten before those two bigger skill so it wouldn't require much in restructuring in terms of when we get the skills.

I mocked up an graphic for it a while back so if anyone hasn't seen, this it visualized

Spread the idea, the devs should absolutely make the change, as it really doesn't have any negatives to it.
(Warrior already does it lol, imagine if inner chaos was it's own button, instead of replacing fell cleave under nascent chaos, how awful)
There's very little I can say anymore so just really want the idea to become more widespread lol.

Merging Senei and Guren is still a valid solution (albeit a lazy one), but this is even better than that since it removes 2 buttons instead of one, and removes drifting on the Ikishoten / Guren & Senei CD's.
It lowers the skill floor, but maintains the skill ceiling since those at the ceiling already are unlikely to let cd's drift.
Oh and this is excellent for making way for a new odd or even minute CD they could introduce next expansions if they wanted to as well.

[Roxus]

Morning all. Today's hot topic in JP has been usage of controllers. I think for every one complaint about the amount of skills there were, another 4 were there to say otherwise. Continued discussion of Multi-hits and the reversion to 6.08. Emphasis on the strength of Iaijutsu being too low. AOE being a detriment in Instanced Dungeon. It's been steady feedback, so I hope we can do the same.

To the post above, yup! I saw your idea and liked it, it's a far better solution than whatever SE is trying to do.

[SiriusBreeze]

Going to try and boost the signal of consolidating Shinten/Kyuten with the Shoha series abilities as put forth in another topic. Essentially upgrading Shinten/Kyuten to Shoha 1/2 when you have enough sword meditation stacks (with the kenki price of Shinten/Kyuten for better potency). This would turn some our most boring abilities (Shinten/Kyuten/Shoha) into an interesting mechanic where we attempt to convert as many Shintens into Shohas and justifies Shoha 2's existence (Kyuten is a circle AOE like Shoha 2, turning Kyuten into Gurren which is a line AOE just seems off). I'm okay with consolidating Senei and Gurren by just having Gurrens initial potency buffed to Senei levels.

[xAFROx]

Making shinten/kyuten connected to shoha might be a neat idea. I was recently thinking there could be a revision to meditation stacks as a whole with how many jobs are trying to emulate FF6 characters now.

Monk got blitz like Sabin. Machinist has the tools Edgar uses. I think there might have been a few more things, but I can't recall at the moment.

But with that in mind, I thought maybe Meditation could stack up to a total of 8. In a similar manner to how Sen alters the Iaijutsu button and it casts in a manner reminiscent of Cyan's sword tech from FF6, what if it had a more overt reference in the kit through Meditation stacks building to 8, changing the ability used like the iai button. 3 minimum gets a single target, 5 makes it an aoe with a large falloff and then 8 would make it a super aoe with a small falloff.
(Not a balanced thought, it came to me an hour ago)

But I definitely think SAM should get the WAR treatment on ability procs like Infuriate making Inner Chaos and such. SAM should do something with Ikishoten/Ogi Namikiri and Senei/Guren

Third Eye - Open Eyes would be nice to have back, too. It doesn't need to take up extra buttons either. Open Eyes can turn Third Eye into Merciful Eyes and change Shinten into Seigan. Doesn't sound like a hard thing to do

[CelestiCer]

Ya know this might come of toxic, then again Square and Community help me become that...

When someone gives an opinion of Kaiten and its approval to it's removal... (that rhymed hehe) and sometimes claiming to Main SAM perhaps even for years... does anyone ever go to their " Oaks", to their " Mahogany " if you will to check if they done recent content as SAM at all?

Often times I find out they have not and actualy cleared content with another class. Heck through Lodestone sometimes I see them never having leveled Samurai. Is that just me or am taking this far? am I threading a thin line of something? idk forum rules honestly I even been cursing in some of my posts cause of utter frustrations from SAM changes coupled with my housing lottery being lost to Nr... 0

[xAFROx]

Glad I'm safe from that kind of scrutiny, lol.

But I think it's pretty obvious when someone doesn't play a job based on their understanding of how it plays. I'm also relatively new to the forums since I've never had a reason to make an account until now.

Sad for your house though. A lot of my friends had the dreaded 0 pop up for them too and they happened to be the only bidder, too.

[Val_Bloodfallen]

Honestly even with the so called "balancing" they did with the removal of Kaiten SAM is doing less damage than before! be it only a 3% difference its still a nerf no matter how they look at it. I would have honestly been ok with the 3% dps loss if they allowed us to keep Kaiten. SAM was in a good spot before the changes even took place and NO ONE was bitching about "botton bloat" and not to beat a dead horse but people have already offered better alternate solutions if that really is the reasoning behind the changes. I share the sentiment everyone is voicing in that the class just feels hollow now.

[Runeslayer]

I've said something similar for DRK, and I'll say it for SAM because I've seen people downplay this aspect which I believe is very important.

Why in the twelve's seven hells do people discount animation flavor as a valid factor for how they derive enjoyment from a class in a /video game/?
I'd argue that's just as much, if not more important than the sheer numbers and mechanics. Taken to a logical extreme, you get pokemon sword and shield where attacks are indicated with a simple hop of a stationary model, and that's NO fun.

Even aside from the mechanical benefit of Kaiten, it just felt REALLY good to use visually. I still advocate for Kaiten to be reverted entirely-- animation, mechanics, and all.