Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[TaoTech]

I think everyone should continue being vocal not only just about SAM, but all the other jobs they have gutted over the last few years too. They need to stop killing the game. There’s a big thread in general about this too if you want to put thoughts there. They need to hear it.

[Roxus]

I think everyone should continue being vocal not only just about SAM, but all the other jobs they have gutted over the last few years too. They need to stop killing the game. There’s a big thread in general about this too if you want to put thoughts there. They need to hear it.

I don't disagree. I am only upset that there seems to be an increase in hostility from other jobs now. They are coming to the threads we are creating or creating their own to put us down or just outright insult us. I feel if I were to try posting in those threads I would be met with the same hostility. Why are we fighting each other?

[Lyth]

...

I don't think that this should be too difficult to understand. The front page of the DPS forums is littered with redundant SAM threads at the moment, offering more in the way of angry outbursts than actual discussion. Some people have created more than one thread just on their own. It's actually fairly disruptive when there are 11 different jobs supposed to be sharing this subforum.

As for the discussion themselves, the feedback tends to be fairly homogenous because anyone who posts even a marginally different viewpoint is subject to background checks, dogpiling, and verbal abuse. If there's anyone out there who has been enjoying Kaiten's removal, we'll never know because they're probably too uncomfortable to post. And posters here by and large feel validated in mistreating others because the fact that Kaiten's removal is 'under review' implies that they have been somehow wronged. It's that riot mentality. But that's not going to be solved by us - there needs to be moderation to merge down these redundant threads and enforce decorum again. This is not the Warcraft forums.

I can appreciate the sentiment, but if you really want to make amends, the thing to do is to consolidate your SAM feedback yourselves, stop creating redundant threads, and allow others to engage with civil debate. You'll find that more people are receptive when you're not disrupting what they're doing.

[Roxus]

Abbreviated

I'm sorry, but consider for a second if there is an increase in activity, something is wrong. As I've stated in other posts, many players have joined the forums for the first time to speak. I don't see your argument for the multiple threads, there are people who do that for other jobs and that is perfectly fine. I only take issue if someone decides to post very low effort content but a majority of the threads are people's own experiences in detail. You haven't even touched on the fact there have been people that create a Samurai thread for denigration that add onto the pile that you are complaining about.

It is not "marginally different viewpoint", and it's clear you just don't care to read everything, which is fine if you are not interested, but commenting on the matter as if you are informed is not. Being told we are "atrocious at basic rotations and have mannerisms of a rotting cow". "I hope they don't add it back in because you are ungrateful". "Don't bother, we've had it worse. Oh but you are a privileged class so you will receive special treatment". "I will enjoy your tears". I'm not going to touch on your point of someone being happy with the Kaiten removal.

I am not "every" sam player. I am myself. I've created two threads with different purposes. One to proffer my hand in friendship and let everyone try and voice their concerns for the game while there is extra commotion and attention. Then this one to talk about what I found wrong with the changes. I have not seen a single Samurai player barge into other MCH, NIN, BRD, etc thread. Yes, I've read them. If you think I haven't allowed civil debate then you clearly haven't read what I have written in these forums. At all. I am also, again, not everyone. I don't go in barging into a random healer or reaper thread and immediately start by being condescending on why I think their concerns aren't valid, and I would especially not do that if it was done to me.

I think you mean some of the healers who have commented maybe.. And perhaps they, or one, seemed initially a bit irritable about it, but you do have to understand they have been screaming for change for years and being completely ignored by devs. But (the one) I remember reading in the comments was still very supportive of what they were doing to other jobs and still speaking up here too so I don't believe they were fighting and I didn't take it that way. Also I posted in the general thread a few times and didn't get any resistance from anyone, there's actually a bunch of sam posts there about the changes. I don't think anything is going to resolve unless everyone is like HEY DEVS PLEASE quit breaking ALL THE JOBS OK THX, with literally so many people screaming at them, they are like OH what? People are not really that dumb? Maybe we shouldn't go around dumbing down everything and making it horribly boring without any identity hmm....

Yes I didn't mean to generalize the healers. I apologize. I understand, and I do play healers in endgame and agree with the sentiment. However, I am not exaggerating that there have been some very toxic comments. I agree, everyone should be united against this issue. It has gone on too long. I have read the threads in General Discussion as well and have liked posts as I can. I'm sadly also limited to how many posts I can do so sometimes that is the best thing I can provide at the time.

[CelestiCer]

I don't think that this should be too difficult to understand. The front page of the DPS forums is littered with redundant SAM threads at the moment, offering more in the way of angry outbursts than actual discussion. Some people have created more than one thread just on their own. It's actually fairly disruptive when there are 11 different jobs supposed to be sharing this subforum.

- So one Samurai voice trumps that over another's?
- We should let one Samurai representative talk for us?
- Or post everything into one thread where it gets lost in the sea of text?
- We should contain our frustrations and go pray at an altar?

What do you expect us to do? Perhaps... having so many voice their concerns so suddenly with new forum accounts including myself who never go to the forums... is perhaps a Sign to the gravity of how negative the changes were... or how passionate Samurai players are about Samurai. Now if you're jealous of that unity, that doesn't sound like a Samurai problem to me. Pinning groups of players against each other is hardly also a productive way of going around about debating something " civil " as you put it.

Is that how we do it in real life?

Imagine -> " You're the 10th sick person letting us know of the condition ty for letting us know we are deeply concerned yes... okey wait... wait that's the 13th and the 14th person... yeah this wont do the 1st 10 was all we could hear and stomach the rest of you? your experiences we don't want to know not worth our time, we don't wanna hear more why's how's and when's " <- okey what?


I'm happy enough to see new Samurai forum accounts that they probably made hastily to voice their opinions and concerns and perspectives with detailed personal experiences and feedback as to make the known issue more genuine and not something that can be brushed off as fake or not worth noticing cause less then a handful are voicing, for you to just label this all Disruptive ?

[KYuuma]

tl;dr

Have you considered: Not every job got shafted as hard as SAM did in 6.1?
Your Reaper got buffed, what do you need the subforum for?
To tell us how great of a class it is and how every SAM ever should just ditch their mains in favor of RPR?

They killed SAM in 6.1. Of course there are more SAM mains voicing their concerns. Wait until they kill yours too in, idk, 8.0 and we'll be flooded with 1000s of posts about how Communio only hits for literal doo doo water.

[TaoTech]

I don't disagree. I am only upset that there seems to be an increase in hostility from other jobs now. They are coming to the threads we are creating or creating their own to put us down or just outright insult us. I feel if I were to try posting in those threads I would be met with the same hostility. Why are we fighting each other?

I think you mean some of the healers who have commented maybe.. And perhaps they, or one, seemed initially a bit irritable about it, but you do have to understand they have been screaming for change for years and being completely ignored by devs. But (the one) I remember reading in the comments was still very supportive of what they were doing to other jobs and still speaking up here too so I don't believe they were fighting and I didn't take it that way. Also I posted in the general thread a few times and didn't get any resistance from anyone, there's actually a bunch of sam posts there about the changes. I don't think anything is going to resolve unless everyone is like HEY DEVS PLEASE quit breaking ALL THE JOBS OK THX, with literally so many people screaming at them, they are like OH what? People are not really that dumb? Maybe we shouldn't go around dumbing down everything and making it horribly boring without any identity hmm....