Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[YukiB]

My guess is they're having trouble with the kenki cost of Kaiten in the opener and burst. Maybe they want to add more kenki skills but can't find the room because we're sort of locked into using Kaiten on iaijutsu. Its value is hard to beat.

They seem to be having problems in general with finding space for all the new shiny skills in openers, hence why they keep removing GCDs and oGCDs from NIN and making their raid wide buff 20 seconds long. It's ultimately a problem of their own making because they decided everything has to revolve around 2 minute burst windows.

We generate 135 kenki in the opener, and Kaiten eats up 80 of it. This may be why they reduced the kenki cost of Senei/Guren from 50 to 25, because we now have to throw in extra Kaiten to buff Ogi Namikiri and a 2nd Midare. There's technically 30 kenki still available in the opener, but some of that may fall out of buffs depending on timing.

Even if this is the case, there are still better solutions than outright removing Kaiten, especially now when it's not a problem.

• Remove Senei's kenki cost completely. It's not like we'll ever not have the kenki for it since it lines up with Ikishoten. This saves 25 kenki in the opener
• Reduce the kenki cost of Kaiten to 10 and make it buff iaijutsu only. Yeah, it'll further trivialize kenki management but if they want to give us a new shiny to make up for it, I'll take it. This will save 40 kenki in the opener
• Have Meikyo Shisui generate an additional 5 kenki per GCD. This adds 30 kenki to the opener

[xAFROx]

I'm not a high-end player either, and I see what you mean - the gear we got for samurai becoming obsolete isn't as big of a deal for us as it is for someone who is into cutting-edge raiding.

That said, losing our favorite way to interact with content is still incredibly impactful, especially if none of the other jobs come anywhere close to what we liked about samurai. I lost my main - I haven't found a new one - I just don't have a main anymore.

Oh, 100% I hate the removal, too. SAM had such a nice flow to it and it was satisfying to play. I was so comfy with the kit that I could play without looking at my bars. Now, without kaiten, I'm paying more attention to my bars to make sure I press everything correctly because I have to actively tell myself not to press the [?] On my bar and go for something else.

Yeah, Hissatsu: Kaiten is still on my bar. I don't care if it gets revised, I didn't even know how much it buffed by until the change. Just let me use it again.

If it's a problem, revise, not remove. Players don't like removal, we prefer additions.

[CelestiCer]

My guess is they're having trouble with the kenki cost of Kaiten in the opener and burst. Maybe they want to add more kenki skills but can't find the room because we're sort of locked into using Kaiten on iaijutsu. Its value is hard to beat.

This is why initially I thought they would turn Kaiten into a 30 second buff x y z specific skills with potency/guaranteed Crits. The other was removing Tsubame-gaeshi and Kaeshi: Namikiri and putting all the potency in Midare Setsugekka on Ogi Namikiri for one hard hit each. They could also increase the Meditation Gauge to hold more Meditation charges for more new skill executions. Note: Not that I want these changes btw... It's more so...

What the heck did they needed space for? This Action Bloat issue, without a crystal ball we don't know we're guessing and creating solutions for problems we can't see. All we can deduce is " they want more space probably? thus we need to make space? what changes are we willing to accept. " and it's theory crafting... and it's just frustrating.

Like is the next thing Shoha III? Advanced Midare? Tsujigiri? Mugai-ryu? are we getting a series of attacks like Kenjutsu similiar to our Iaijutsu? Jigen-ryu? <- btw i am just throwing Samurai terminologies out there I have no idea... honestly I have no clue...

[Karious]

Disappointed in this change and its made me quit Samurai as my main DPS. I've already been through this song and dance before and don't expect SE to fix anything, just like they took away the original gunbreaker audio and told us to deal with it. Really annoying when they claim they listen to player feedback and continue to constantly pull stuff like this.

[Flashy]

They ruined the job and didn't solve any of the problems they targeted these changes for

"Button Bloat" whether that be an APM or number of actions on the hotbar. None of these were fixed. Shinten's cost was not adjusted so the APM of the job didn't really change. They introduced the action bloat problem with Shoha 2 and Ogi Namikiri as separate buttons but instead of combining the Shohas and making it aoe with fall-off damage, or ikishoten into namikiri, they remove kaiten?

What's the point of building 8 gcds to cast something as underwhelming as the new midare with its nerfed potency? Spreading the potency around the kit made this job boring to play and there's no satisfaction of building up for a midare when it hits so low, and makes no sense when this game is designed around pumping all your damage into the 2 minute burst window

6.1 was an absolute failure for SAM and needs to be reverted immediately

[Ajhian]

If this 6.11 maintenance/patch doesn't revert these changes, well, I can't say I'm gonna be mind boggled since that already happened thoroughly, but I'm definitely gonna be mad.

[Ceridwen]

I suppose it's too much to hope that they'll fix it for 6.11, and they probably want to see how it does in the Ultimate - but I'd be so happy and *relieved* if they responded to what seems like an almost universal, "PLEASE, for the love of God, revert! Revert!"

[xAFROx]

I wouldn't mind if shoha was changed into a single button that changes based on meditation stacks, in all honesty. I think alongside the Sen casting, it would be another way of bringing some more of the classic inspiration of the job into the game like with the monk and machinist changes made lately.

There seems to be a bit of bias towards FF6 for some of the job fantasy they've hit and SAM was already inspired by the FF6 rep, Cyan. It's why we have cast bars at all is to represent his ability Sword Tech. If we had a few more meditation stacks that changed a single button to make use of it, I think that'd be a nice and neat little addition, along with all the other trimming and consolidating we've already suggested to make room.

As for the whole Kaiten fiasco, I'd prefer to keep it, but if they're really intent on making our big hits (which currently as of 6.1 patch absolutely does NOT feel like big hits) a guaranteed critical, then they could revise it to be more in line with other similar skills that make the next ability crit, and they can even alter it to be specific to iaijutsu if they really want to limit how it's used.

But most of all I just want to hear what the plan is supposed to be. I don't want a surprise if it's going to be bad. I'd like to actually hear what they're thought process was and not just 'please look forward to it' when it's this bad.

Removing Kaiten I could honestly live with, but what they've done to all the potencies just feels wrong when added on top of it.

Revert or explain, please.

[cjbeagle]

Yeah, Hissatsu: Kaiten is still on my bar.

Not only is it still on my bar, but I've been PVPing as a machinist and I put Analysis where Kaiten goes and Drill where Iaijutsu goes. Not that I miss old samurai or anything. =3

[Vitreus]

Disappointed in this change and its made me quit Samurai as my main DPS. I've already been through this song and dance before and don't expect SE to fix anything, just like they took away the original gunbreaker audio and told us to deal with it. Really annoying when they claim they listen to player feedback and continue to constantly pull stuff like this.

As someone that used to heal a lot and liked having more than a single damage button ability to spam, I couldn't agree more.