Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[Kaseladen]

The counterargument to this is that if these abilities are in preparation to 7.0 and future expansions (aka the next ten years), the team would not want to spoil players into the changes they have in mind years before they get to show them off. Gotta understand that game devs want to surprise their players all the time.

A bad way to surprise your players is to give them a subpar experience for an expansion to prep for a 'new' one.
Its a good way to make sure there aren't people to surprise.
Ignoring the fact that I've seen that play out many times to the detriment of games.

[cjbeagle]

The counterargument to this is that if these abilities are in preparation to 7.0 and future expansions (aka the next ten years), the team would not want to spoil players into the changes they have in mind years before they get to show them off. Gotta understand that game devs want to surprise their players all the time.

The counterargument to your counterargument fits perfectly with the quote you quoted.

If you're going to replace my stairs with an awesome new elevator - cool, remove the stairs when you install the elevator - don't demo the stairs and tell me to look forward to the elevator sometime in the future - in the meantime I have no access to the upper floor.

We aren't necessarily unhappy that we didn't get the elevator - we're unhappy that they demoed the stairs prematurely - the cat is stuck upstairs and will probably starve to death by the time we can get up there. We called the fire department, but it went to voicemail and they've yet to respond.

[xAFROx]

The counterargument to this is that if these abilities are in preparation to 7.0 and future expansions (aka the next ten years), the team would not want to spoil players into the changes they have in mind years before they get to show them off. Gotta understand that game devs want to surprise their players all the time.

Uh, no offense dude, but like... that's not a good way to go about anything.

I've said this in another thread, I don't remember which, but surprises are fine. But if the surprise is years to come, then making everyone unhappy in preparation for that is not good planning.

A change like this should have something ready to replace or make up for it and the changes that were made are not a real compromise or compensation to what they've done.

So if the plan is to surprise players in 7.0 with a grand rework to how the system works, why are they starting so early as 6.1 with just a single job? It's like 6.0 all over with the tanks, except instead of neglecting one in favor of the rest, it singled out one while leaving the rest alone.

All the tanks got so much sustain and mitigation at the start of 6.0 it was awesome..... except for DRK. But DRK finally got something in 6.1 so yay? It's now slightly better at surviving.

In this case, SAM lost a part of itself while the rest of the jobs got QoL changes. Cool, so why is SAM braindead and boring and flat? It was too varied because of RNG? It was too strong in the burst window the devs forced upon the entire job design? SAM was always about using a few hard hitting attacks with a long build up. So naturally that was bound to happen.

If they simply reworked how certain skills and abilities interacted with one another, perhaps we wouldn't all be here complaining about all the other ways it could've been done.

Currently we're sitting here looking at the surprise left to us with a dull face going "Thanks, I hate it."

That's not how you build anticipation or faith in your consumers.

[Ruminous]

Uh, no offense dude, but like... that's not a good way to go about anything.

I've said this in another thread, I don't remember which, but surprises are fine. But if the surprise is years to come, then making everyone unhappy in preparation for that is not good planning.

A change like this should have something ready to replace or make up for it and the changes that were made are not a real compromise or compensation to what they've done.

So if the plan is to surprise players in 7.0 with a grand rework to how the system works, why are they starting so early as 6.1 with just a single job? It's like 6.0 all over with the tanks, except instead of neglecting one in favor of the rest, it singled out one while leaving the rest alone.

All the tanks got so much sustain and mitigation at the start of 6.0 it was awesome..... except for DRK. But DRK finally got something in 6.1 so yay? It's now slightly better at surviving.

In this case, SAM lost a part of itself while the rest of the jobs got QoL changes. Cool, so why is SAM braindead and boring and flat? It was too varied because of RNG? It was too strong in the burst window the devs forced upon the entire job design? SAM was always about using a few hard hitting attacks with a long build up. So naturally that was bound to happen.

If they simply reworked how certain skills and abilities interacted with one another, perhaps we wouldn't all be here complaining about all the other ways it could've been done.

Currently we're sitting here looking at the surprise left to us with a dull face going "Thanks, I hate it."

That's not how you build anticipation or faith in your consumers.

What, giving me two slices of bread then promising me a full sandwich later isn't going to build anticipation when there's a sandwich shop next door? Say it ain't so!

It really has been one of my peeves ever since the announcement of 6.1's sam changes happened, was what it would get to make up for the loss in its style of play. Sure the damage is fine, but everything feels rather weightless. I will say that if they wanted to get people off samurai to try other roles, that part succeeded.

Ever since Misshapen Chair brought it up...The question of "who were these changes for?" has been on my mind and it's one I've been struggling to find an answer to. Maybe someday I'll figure it out, but even with the conga line of excuses we've got and the haphazard way the changes were implemented...I can see why they chose radio silence at this point. Sucks, but no one wants to go in front of the angry mob. Then again, would've been easier to not make the mob angry in the first place.

[cjbeagle]

giving me two slices of bread then promising me a full sandwich later

More accurately, you already had a full sandwich and they took away everything but the bread and said they'd get back to you with fresher ingredients in, well, TBA.

[xAFROx]

What, giving me two slices of bread then promising me a full sandwich later isn't going to build anticipation when there's a sandwich shop next door? Say it ain't so!

It really has been one of my peeves ever since the announcement of 6.1's sam changes happened, was what it would get to make up for the loss in its style of play. Sure the damage is fine, but everything feels rather weightless. I will say that if they wanted to get people off samurai to try other roles, that part succeeded.

Ever since Misshapen Chair brought it up...The question of "who were these changes for?" has been on my mind and it's one I've been struggling to find an answer to. Maybe someday I'll figure it out, but even with the conga line of excuses we've got and the haphazard way the changes were implemented...I can see why they chose radio silence at this point. Sucks, but no one wants to go in front of the angry mob. Then again, would've been easier to not make the mob angry in the first place.

It is unfortunate and they knew that this was going to rile players. Obviously, from the way they acted during the announcements and readings leading up to 6.1 they knew. And maybe they are scared to address it because they know that the community can be quite rabid at times in an uproar.

But they literally told us to not knock it before we try it, and we have tried it. It has been almost a whole month now and sentiments did not change. So... why wouldn't they address it in some way shape or form after the fact? I really don't want to wait a whole patch cycle to use the job I chose to level with my limited time, or worse, until the next xpac. I leveled SAM because it was my main dps ever since I started playing back in 4.2

I may try to keep a good number of other jobs leveled, but I don't play as rapidly or as efficiently with the time I have because it's just not fun some times grinding. But I made the effort and they changed it and for what? It's hard to believe any excuse when each one given can be debunked with just a small bit of thought.

Hope they fix this soon,
-a dejected SAM player.

[AsiTsurugi]

Bumping the thread so they do not think inactivity in the thread means people have magically accepted the utterly nonsensical changes in 6.1 these amazing devs made to "fix" the job.

[SpartanPawnch]

Bumping this thread also. To prove that we aren't the only ones dissatisfied with the SAM changes, I want to highlight comment #3072 from the main samurai thread on the JP forums: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...%83%AC/page308 , which compares the number of comments made regarding each DPS before and after 6.1. Taking into account the comments made after this was posted, there are currently over 800 comments written about SAM since 6.1, in contrast to the 2281 made from 4.0 to 6.1. Since JP feedback is mostly consolidated into the main threads, this means that the JP community has effectively produced 1.5 - 2 years worth of feedback in a single month. While I obviously haven't read through all of the comments, I can't help but feel most of them aren't exactly positive.

[Karious]

I skimmed through that thread with auto translate on and while it was a horrid mistranslation, it at least showed me that the majority of the posts (of the two dozen random ones or so) were all asking for kaiten back, tenka-goken to be a cone again, or for them to revert to 6.08.

[xAFROx]

Bumping this thread also. To prove that we aren't the only ones dissatisfied with the SAM changes, I want to highlight comment #3072 from the main samurai thread on the JP forums: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...%83%AC/page308 , which compares the number of comments made regarding each DPS before and after 6.1. Taking into account the comments made after this was posted, there are currently over 800 comments written about SAM since 6.1, in contrast to the 2281 made from 4.0 to 6.1. Since JP feedback is mostly consolidated into the main threads, this means that the JP community has effectively produced 1.5 - 2 years worth of feedback in a single month. While I obviously haven't read through all of the comments, I can't help but feel most of them aren't exactly positive.

That's going to be very important, then. Because I feel like that's the only side that's going to get any actual response rather than one to all regions.

Hope it gains traction in the right places