Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[cjbeagle]

Thanks as always for keeping us informed on how the other regions are taking it.

you don't go into someone's house and remove the staircase saying there will be improvements TBA and expect them to be okay with it.

XD I love this.

[Quor]

There's not much to elaborate on this, you don't go into someone's house and remove the staircase saying there will be improvements TBA and expect them to be okay with it.

Man, if there's one silver lining to this whole job design debacle it's that we've been able to see some real great one-liners coming out of the CN/KR/JP sides of the game.

[RaevusAstra]

There's also comments regarding the increased anger from the playerbase regarding lack of communication. There's not much to elaborate on this, you don't go into someone's house and remove the staircase saying there will be improvements TBA and expect them to be okay with it.

The counterargument to this is that if these abilities are in preparation to 7.0 and future expansions (aka the next ten years), the team would not want to spoil players into the changes they have in mind years before they get to show them off. Gotta understand that game devs want to surprise their players all the time.

[FrogBiscuit]

The counterargument to this is that if these abilities are in preparation to 7.0 and future expansions (aka the next ten years), the team would not want to spoil players into the changes they have in mind years before they get to show them off. Gotta understand that game devs want to surprise their players all the time.

Not denying your point...

But in this scenario I believe it requires a bit more finesse...

Whats better?
- Surprise your players abruptly with a horribly negative change, so later at a unknown date, they can be surprised by something that 'might' be as fun, more fun, or less fun then what they remember from years ago... All the while, in-between... they don't enjoy their time...
or
- Even if the changes are set in stone with no option of reverting the horrible decisions... throwing your player base a bone so they don't spend 1.5, maybe more, plus years not having fun with your game and are just desperate for a reversion that adds fun back to a product they used to enjoy?


I get surprising your player base. But if the cost to achieve this is catastrophic... maybe its not worth it...

[Kaseladen]

The counterargument to this is that if these abilities are in preparation to 7.0 and future expansions (aka the next ten years), the team would not want to spoil players into the changes they have in mind years before they get to show them off. Gotta understand that game devs want to surprise their players all the time.

A bad way to surprise your players is to give them a subpar experience for an expansion to prep for a 'new' one.
Its a good way to make sure there aren't people to surprise.
Ignoring the fact that I've seen that play out many times to the detriment of games.

[cjbeagle]

The counterargument to this is that if these abilities are in preparation to 7.0 and future expansions (aka the next ten years), the team would not want to spoil players into the changes they have in mind years before they get to show them off. Gotta understand that game devs want to surprise their players all the time.

The counterargument to your counterargument fits perfectly with the quote you quoted.

If you're going to replace my stairs with an awesome new elevator - cool, remove the stairs when you install the elevator - don't demo the stairs and tell me to look forward to the elevator sometime in the future - in the meantime I have no access to the upper floor.

We aren't necessarily unhappy that we didn't get the elevator - we're unhappy that they demoed the stairs prematurely - the cat is stuck upstairs and will probably starve to death by the time we can get up there. We called the fire department, but it went to voicemail and they've yet to respond.

[AsiTsurugi]

Adding my frustration at the current state of samurai to the growing list of people, and requesting a full reversal of the changes since 6.08.

EDIT: With all due respect to the dev team, it really is none of our concern that you are incapable of designing an encounter over 2 years delayed without breaking a multitude of jobs two weeks before releasing said encounter. We are paying customers, it is our prerogative to want things and we pay you for it. As a company, tt is your prerogative to fullfil your customers' requirements or not. If you, as a company, show a pattern of disrespecting us and acting like you know what we want better than us, and ignoring our feedback, I am sure most of us (your current paying customers, not the imaginary "single player FF fans" that may come several years in the future) will vote with our wallets, and you can continue to pretend that the game will still exist "another 10 years", then cut a sorry figure to the C-suite at Square Enix when they see their cash cow is turning out to be just as much of a failure as the rest of their projects in recent memory.

[xAFROx]

Hey guys.

Just a small update, players are speaking of the massive amount of feedback being given and are firmly asking for a 6.08 rollback for Samurai. A point brought up was that there should be an answer now rather than the next PLL. If the PLL comes around and they say "We can't do a rollback", invalidating everyone's feedback, we won't be able to change our request at all. Obviously everyone's first choice is a rollback and it isn't actually impossible, people aren't that dumb. JP's feedback alone has grown to over 100 pages, most of it being a rollback request. It would be problematic to ignore all those voices, right? Since the feedback was not addressed earlier, it's unrealistic to expect people to not ask for what they want most.

There's also comments regarding the increased anger from the playerbase regarding lack of communication. There's not much to elaborate on this, you don't go into someone's house and remove the staircase saying there will be improvements TBA and expect them to be okay with it.

I'm so glad that the other regions share our feelings on the matter of SAM. So great to see a community rise up as a whole in one voice.

Let's keep that train going and hope we get what we want soon.

[xAFROx]

The counterargument to this is that if these abilities are in preparation to 7.0 and future expansions (aka the next ten years), the team would not want to spoil players into the changes they have in mind years before they get to show them off. Gotta understand that game devs want to surprise their players all the time.

Uh, no offense dude, but like... that's not a good way to go about anything.

I've said this in another thread, I don't remember which, but surprises are fine. But if the surprise is years to come, then making everyone unhappy in preparation for that is not good planning.

A change like this should have something ready to replace or make up for it and the changes that were made are not a real compromise or compensation to what they've done.

So if the plan is to surprise players in 7.0 with a grand rework to how the system works, why are they starting so early as 6.1 with just a single job? It's like 6.0 all over with the tanks, except instead of neglecting one in favor of the rest, it singled out one while leaving the rest alone.

All the tanks got so much sustain and mitigation at the start of 6.0 it was awesome..... except for DRK. But DRK finally got something in 6.1 so yay? It's now slightly better at surviving.

In this case, SAM lost a part of itself while the rest of the jobs got QoL changes. Cool, so why is SAM braindead and boring and flat? It was too varied because of RNG? It was too strong in the burst window the devs forced upon the entire job design? SAM was always about using a few hard hitting attacks with a long build up. So naturally that was bound to happen.

If they simply reworked how certain skills and abilities interacted with one another, perhaps we wouldn't all be here complaining about all the other ways it could've been done.

Currently we're sitting here looking at the surprise left to us with a dull face going "Thanks, I hate it."

That's not how you build anticipation or faith in your consumers.

[Ruminous]

Uh, no offense dude, but like... that's not a good way to go about anything.

I've said this in another thread, I don't remember which, but surprises are fine. But if the surprise is years to come, then making everyone unhappy in preparation for that is not good planning.

A change like this should have something ready to replace or make up for it and the changes that were made are not a real compromise or compensation to what they've done.

So if the plan is to surprise players in 7.0 with a grand rework to how the system works, why are they starting so early as 6.1 with just a single job? It's like 6.0 all over with the tanks, except instead of neglecting one in favor of the rest, it singled out one while leaving the rest alone.

All the tanks got so much sustain and mitigation at the start of 6.0 it was awesome..... except for DRK. But DRK finally got something in 6.1 so yay? It's now slightly better at surviving.

In this case, SAM lost a part of itself while the rest of the jobs got QoL changes. Cool, so why is SAM braindead and boring and flat? It was too varied because of RNG? It was too strong in the burst window the devs forced upon the entire job design? SAM was always about using a few hard hitting attacks with a long build up. So naturally that was bound to happen.

If they simply reworked how certain skills and abilities interacted with one another, perhaps we wouldn't all be here complaining about all the other ways it could've been done.

Currently we're sitting here looking at the surprise left to us with a dull face going "Thanks, I hate it."

That's not how you build anticipation or faith in your consumers.

What, giving me two slices of bread then promising me a full sandwich later isn't going to build anticipation when there's a sandwich shop next door? Say it ain't so!

It really has been one of my peeves ever since the announcement of 6.1's sam changes happened, was what it would get to make up for the loss in its style of play. Sure the damage is fine, but everything feels rather weightless. I will say that if they wanted to get people off samurai to try other roles, that part succeeded.

Ever since Misshapen Chair brought it up...The question of "who were these changes for?" has been on my mind and it's one I've been struggling to find an answer to. Maybe someday I'll figure it out, but even with the conga line of excuses we've got and the haphazard way the changes were implemented...I can see why they chose radio silence at this point. Sucks, but no one wants to go in front of the angry mob. Then again, would've been easier to not make the mob angry in the first place.