Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[Roxus]

I see some people have brought up Ultimate so I'll give you my personal experience from today. Our other melee plays DRG/NIN. He went DRG today and we will wipe to Thordan's enrage if a dps messes up. He swapped to NIN like he originally was and we kill Thordan during his second swing even with a damage down and dps death. This is without pots so we save them for Nidprog, and our comp isn't an optimal comp - this is just to define how much of a difference NIN's burst brings to the Ultimate.

You can reason for the developers, but when you look at Ninja's performance you can't say there aren't other jobs with a clear problem in this Ultimate (they even created one in the same patch as killing SAM). As for another example, having Dancer will make targetable meteors a joke even with deaths. Their "fix" didn't fix anything aside removing one job from being considered for most groups. If you have to change several jobs to accommodate for one piece of content, I will respectfully disagree that it's well designed.

People overseas have started compromising/making suggestions on things like removing cast bars (no thank you), turn shinten into old warrior's fell cleave stacks (no thank you), and keeping kaiten removed in exchange for the addition of guaranteed direct hits (no). I want the changes reverted in full and for them to work on it from scratch if it is that important to rework a previously perfectly functional job. If only they would work on jobs that actually needed the help, god forbid.

[darkdyllon]

I see some people have brought up Ultimate so I'll give you my personal experience from today. Our other melee plays DRG/NIN. He went DRG today and we will wipe to Thordan's enrage if a dps messes up. He swapped to NIN like he originally was and we kill Thordan during his second swing even with a damage down and dps death. This is without pots so we save them for Nidprog, and our comp isn't an optimal comp - this is just to define how much of a difference NIN's burst brings to the Ultimate.

You can reason for the developers, but when you look at Ninja's performance you can't say there aren't other jobs with a clear problem in this Ultimate (they even created one in the same patch as killing SAM). As for another example, having Dancer will make targetable meteors a joke even with deaths. Their "fix" didn't fix anything aside removing one job from being considered for most groups. If you have to change several jobs to accommodate for one piece of content, I will respectfully disagree that it's well designed.

People overseas have started compromising/making suggestions on things like removing cast bars (no thank you), turn shinten into old warrior's fell cleave stacks (no thank you), and keeping kaiten removed in exchange for the addition of guaranteed direct hits (no). I want the changes reverted in full and for them to work on it from scratch if it is that important to rework a previously perfectly functional job. If only they would work on jobs that actually needed the help, god forbid.

agreed on all, the problem is that this is just basically an tactic used.
"we're listening" ... but they're waiting since they know that either SAMs are just gonna cope and continue playing the job, or quit the job and stop complaining about it.
quite sad, i'm not hopeful, but we'll see in the 6.2 live letter since he said that they would be listening for changes for 6.2. (Although an literal revert of SAM would fix it, but details)

[Karious]

I swapped to Dragoon to finally start leveling it. I noticed that Blood of the Dragon was taken away at some point. I remember it was an ability that gave a potency increase on jump and spineshatter dive by 30%. I must have missed when they removed it but it feels very much like a change in-line with Samurai. Taking control of potency increases out of the players hands. It very much put me off from wanting to play that class as well... :/

[YukiB]

I swapped to Dragoon to finally start leveling it. I noticed that Blood of the Dragon was taken away at some point. I remember it was an ability that gave a potency increase on jump and spineshatter dive by 30%. I must have missed when they removed it but it feels very much like a change in-line with Samurai. Taking control of potency increases out of the players hands. It very much put me off from wanting to play that class as well... :/

It's not really the same. Kaiten was an ability that had a resource cost and was manually used before big attacks. Blood of the Dragon was a skill with no cost and, at high levels, a cooldown shorter than its duration that was extended during the melee combo so it was effectively a passive. There was no control involved, because you used it once at the start of the fight and that's it. More like NIN's Huton.

Still sucks to lose it, honestly, because it didn't require any effort to keep up and it looked cool. I wouldn't want NIN to lose Huton for the same reason.

[Karious]

It's not really the same. Kaiten was an ability that had a resource cost and was manually used before big attacks. Blood of the Dragon was a skill with no cost and, at high levels, a cooldown shorter than its duration that was extended during the melee combo so it was effectively a passive. There was no control involved, because you used it once at the start of the fight and that's it. More like NIN's Huton.

Still sucks to lose it, honestly, because it didn't require any effort to keep up and it looked cool. I wouldn't want NIN to lose Huton for the same reason.

Well, yes, Kaiten is a much more involved skill. As a previous Samurai as my main DPS I don't know the exact particulars of other classes skills. Just feels like dumbing down in general. As you said, comparable to Huton. I'm not super knowledgable in all the classes but it definitely feels like dumbing down and homogenization across the board.

[CelestiCer]

My Tinfoil hat is saying that Square found Samurai's playrate numbers to be to high and needed that to be distributed amongst the other classes. Failing to make all Jobs universally more equally enjoyable or equally complex? they just made it all just simpler easier dumber and less complex. Bonus Points? makes game balancing probably easier ontop of it. This is my Tinfoil hat take, however... due to my attempt to cope with the situation... I don't even find it farfetched anymore, this was all an inside job. Then again I am coping here.

[xAFROx]

Well, yes, Kaiten is a much more involved skill. As a previous Samurai as my main DPS I don't know the exact particulars of other classes skills. Just feels like dumbing down in general. As you said, comparable to Huton. I'm not super knowledgable in all the classes but it definitely feels like dumbing down and homogenization across the board.

Yeah, DRG blood of the dragon is akin to NIN Huton or BLM Enochian. Both Enochian and Blood of the Dragon were turned into passive traits to alleviate players who struggled to keep those buffs up and active.

[xAFROx]

I see some people have brought up Ultimate so I'll give you my personal experience from today. Our other melee plays DRG/NIN. He went DRG today and we will wipe to Thordan's enrage if a dps messes up. He swapped to NIN like he originally was and we kill Thordan during his second swing even with a damage down and dps death. This is without pots so we save them for Nidprog, and our comp isn't an optimal comp - this is just to define how much of a difference NIN's burst brings to the Ultimate.

You can reason for the developers, but when you look at Ninja's performance you can't say there aren't other jobs with a clear problem in this Ultimate (they even created one in the same patch as killing SAM). As for another example, having Dancer will make targetable meteors a joke even with deaths. Their "fix" didn't fix anything aside removing one job from being considered for most groups. If you have to change several jobs to accommodate for one piece of content, I will respectfully disagree that it's well designed.

People overseas have started compromising/making suggestions on things like removing cast bars (no thank you), turn shinten into old warrior's fell cleave stacks (no thank you), and keeping kaiten removed in exchange for the addition of guaranteed direct hits (no). I want the changes reverted in full and for them to work on it from scratch if it is that important to rework a previously perfectly functional job. If only they would work on jobs that actually needed the help, god forbid.

Dear God, I hope those suggestions don't come to fruition. I want SAM back. If I want to play WAR, I'll go level that again.

I second the opinions of revert to 6.08 and implore the devs to actually think about what should be done (if at all) with SAM going forward. The whole issue that they seem to be trying to address is the very additions they've made in the last couple expansions.

Honestly, Misshapen Chair's video response about the 6.1 announcement is pretty apt at pointing these details out already. So if they want video content addressing their idea, that's a good start.

I just want my job to be fun again.

[cjbeagle]

I just want my job to be fun again.

This. I miss playing samurai so much, yet playing it now is worse than not playing it at all - it's an affront to what the job used to be.

The only compromise I'd be happy with is if they completely reworked the job and the new version was even better than it was in 6.08, but I have absolutely zero faith that it would be.

Whoever originally designed samurai knew what they were doing. Whoever decided to remove Kaiten and redistribute potencies away from finishers doesn't. I can't imagine these are the same person, but regardless, whoever thought the 6.1 changes were a good idea can't be trusted with redesigning the entire job.

[Roxus]

Hey guys.

Just a small update, players are speaking of the massive amount of feedback being given and are firmly asking for a 6.08 rollback for Samurai. A point brought up was that there should be an answer now rather than the next PLL. If the PLL comes around and they say "We can't do a rollback", invalidating everyone's feedback, we won't be able to change our request at all. Obviously everyone's first choice is a rollback and it isn't actually impossible, people aren't that dumb. JP's feedback alone has grown to over 100 pages, most of it being a rollback request. It would be problematic to ignore all those voices, right? Since the feedback was not addressed earlier, it's unrealistic to expect people to not ask for what they want most.

There's also comments regarding the increased anger from the playerbase regarding lack of communication. There's not much to elaborate on this, you don't go into someone's house and remove the staircase saying there will be improvements TBA and expect them to be okay with it.