Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[KYuuma]

This is the kinda shit that should've come in 7.0 with the new abilities he's telling players to look forward to. Gutting the Job from 6.1 to 7.0 while offering nothing in return is such a bad idea, and it's embarrassing that a dev team that brags about "playing the game" and "listening to players" can fuck up so badly.

7.0 they will nerf SAM again. You can come back to this reply when it hits. I can guarantee you 100% that they will f it up in one way or another.

These devs have lost all my goodwill and confidence in a single patch.

[CelestiCer]

It is sad to see people dismiss " Kaiten " merits without good reason or any of the negative 6.1 changes, Tenka Goken cone included.

Ctrl+F searching the word " Kaiten" in the FFXIV discord, I see numerous players invalidate the opinions of SAM main without really any counter argument other then " will you just stfu / I don't understand the outcry / It's no big deal / I like the simple changes ". This whole atittude of " you're burdening my space with your opinions basically ".

We give proper structured opinions and feedback
- Perspective with Experience
- Numbers in Damage and Performance
- Our voices in mass
- Better alternative solutions and suggestions

Yet the main counter argument is " will you just stfu ".

We have (long time) Samurai mains voicing their feedback and concerns... to be outright dismissed so easily... really? Nothing pre-6.1 or post-6.1 SAM changes will affect any Non-SAM Mains, it shouldn't have them complain so badly about us complaining what we hold dear... Are we supposed to give our feedback less loudly? please hush so the Dev's can actually hear you... okey ugh no? what?

Then again... I am trying to understand human stupidity here which is... which...well that's my own fault lol the more players are for oversimplicity? the more it gives Dev's the incentive to just outright " kill " Intriguing Job design gameplay. Not visual... " Gameplay ".

[Roxus]

Hey all.

With Ultimate coming up, discussion has been speculating these changes were to balance Ultimate and not the actual jobs. This discussion extends to Ninja as well.

Another discussion point is "MMORPG". Most don't think FF14 deserves to have "MMO" included anymore.

The points he brought up on stream during the patch note reading were not detailed, and Samurai was mentioned as an afterthought. They don't even know what they're doing with the jobs and if you watch the video you can see he was hesitating. There wasn't much meaning to his words and it was more to save face. As for the person commenting on etiquette, you can harshly criticize this game without personally attacking them. Feel free to call the design what it is, but not the designers themselves.

[cjbeagle]

Re: the Yoshi-P quote "and on Kaiten getting removed we did that because we want to do away having to be restricted by that move."

I would love some elaboration on how Kaiten was restricting their design space. I suspect it's because it buffs the next weaponskill by 50%, which makes designing around Kaiten necessary anytime they introduce a hard-hitting skill that would be worth using Kaiten on.

Change Kaiten to only affect Iaijutsu and Ogi. Solved.

How else could it be restricting their design options? Are they trying to introduce some new kenki spender? Great, replace Shinten.

[Ajhian]

How else could it be restricting their design options? Are they trying to introduce some new kenki spender? Great, replace Shinten.

That's what I'd like to know, in what world is designing around Kaiten so difficult. You already exclude abilities that are affected by Kaiten, so what's holding you back from restricting kaiten from affecting things that just aren't solely Iaijutsu as you said. IF you wanna add more Kenki spenders and reduce button bloat, you can just wrap skills into one like Ogi/Kaeshi are, hell you can wrap Ogi and Kaeshi into Ikishoten since they're only useable after you press the button anywas. They could rework Shoha to just be one upgraded AOE ability instead of having 2 damn Shoha's.

[YukiB]

My guess is they're having trouble with the kenki cost of Kaiten in the opener and burst. Maybe they want to add more kenki skills but can't find the room because we're sort of locked into using Kaiten on iaijutsu. Its value is hard to beat.

They seem to be having problems in general with finding space for all the new shiny skills in openers, hence why they keep removing GCDs and oGCDs from NIN and making their raid wide buff 20 seconds long. It's ultimately a problem of their own making because they decided everything has to revolve around 2 minute burst windows.

We generate 135 kenki in the opener, and Kaiten eats up 80 of it. This may be why they reduced the kenki cost of Senei/Guren from 50 to 25, because we now have to throw in extra Kaiten to buff Ogi Namikiri and a 2nd Midare. There's technically 30 kenki still available in the opener, but some of that may fall out of buffs depending on timing.

Even if this is the case, there are still better solutions than outright removing Kaiten, especially now when it's not a problem.

• Remove Senei's kenki cost completely. It's not like we'll ever not have the kenki for it since it lines up with Ikishoten. This saves 25 kenki in the opener
• Reduce the kenki cost of Kaiten to 10 and make it buff iaijutsu only. Yeah, it'll further trivialize kenki management but if they want to give us a new shiny to make up for it, I'll take it. This will save 40 kenki in the opener
• Have Meikyo Shisui generate an additional 5 kenki per GCD. This adds 30 kenki to the opener

[CelestiCer]

My guess is they're having trouble with the kenki cost of Kaiten in the opener and burst. Maybe they want to add more kenki skills but can't find the room because we're sort of locked into using Kaiten on iaijutsu. Its value is hard to beat.

This is why initially I thought they would turn Kaiten into a 30 second buff x y z specific skills with potency/guaranteed Crits. The other was removing Tsubame-gaeshi and Kaeshi: Namikiri and putting all the potency in Midare Setsugekka on Ogi Namikiri for one hard hit each. They could also increase the Meditation Gauge to hold more Meditation charges for more new skill executions. Note: Not that I want these changes btw... It's more so...

What the heck did they needed space for? This Action Bloat issue, without a crystal ball we don't know we're guessing and creating solutions for problems we can't see. All we can deduce is " they want more space probably? thus we need to make space? what changes are we willing to accept. " and it's theory crafting... and it's just frustrating.

Like is the next thing Shoha III? Advanced Midare? Tsujigiri? Mugai-ryu? are we getting a series of attacks like Kenjutsu similiar to our Iaijutsu? Jigen-ryu? <- btw i am just throwing Samurai terminologies out there I have no idea... honestly I have no clue...

[xAFROx]

I'm not a high-end player either, and I see what you mean - the gear we got for samurai becoming obsolete isn't as big of a deal for us as it is for someone who is into cutting-edge raiding.

That said, losing our favorite way to interact with content is still incredibly impactful, especially if none of the other jobs come anywhere close to what we liked about samurai. I lost my main - I haven't found a new one - I just don't have a main anymore.

Oh, 100% I hate the removal, too. SAM had such a nice flow to it and it was satisfying to play. I was so comfy with the kit that I could play without looking at my bars. Now, without kaiten, I'm paying more attention to my bars to make sure I press everything correctly because I have to actively tell myself not to press the [?] On my bar and go for something else.

Yeah, Hissatsu: Kaiten is still on my bar. I don't care if it gets revised, I didn't even know how much it buffed by until the change. Just let me use it again.

If it's a problem, revise, not remove. Players don't like removal, we prefer additions.

[cjbeagle]

Yeah, Hissatsu: Kaiten is still on my bar.

Not only is it still on my bar, but I've been PVPing as a machinist and I put Analysis where Kaiten goes and Drill where Iaijutsu goes. Not that I miss old samurai or anything. =3

[Karious]

Disappointed in this change and its made me quit Samurai as my main DPS. I've already been through this song and dance before and don't expect SE to fix anything, just like they took away the original gunbreaker audio and told us to deal with it. Really annoying when they claim they listen to player feedback and continue to constantly pull stuff like this.