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  1. #1
    Player
    ForsakenRoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    2,399
    Character
    Samantha Redgrayve
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Now, how do you move tanks away from feeling like they have a significant unique responsibility when they don't? I suspect that's by increasing the outwardly visible responsibility of whichever role would otherwise seem to have the least.
    You can't, so you don't even try, is the solution imo. Not trying to say this in a callous way, but look at FFXIV history. They have removed 'position the boss correctly' from encounters, removed the stance dance for more DPS thing, baked in the old tankstance 20% damage mitigation as a permanent trait, jacked the aggro generation on tank stance up from 5x to 25x or whatever it is, given tanks way higher HP than other roles, and none of it matters because people will still believe that, since the tank is the one at the front doing the pulling, they're the 'leader', and therefore laden with responsibility somehow. Tank is probably the least punishing of the roles in this game, you can eat AOEs others cannot, you have way more defensives if you see you're in bad, you have way more selfsustain tools to get your HP back up.

    People go 'but what if I mistime a defensive i'm scare'. My brother/sister in Hyadelyn, the fact you're thinking about using a defensive, even mistimed, makes you better than like 85% of the playerbase
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,885
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe View Post
    They have removed 'position the boss correctly' from encounters, removed the stance dance for more DPS thing, baked in the old tankstance 20% damage mitigation as a permanent trait, jacked the aggro generation on tank stance up from 5x to 25x or whatever it is, given tanks way higher HP than other roles, and none of it matters because people will still believe that, since the tank is the one at the front doing the pulling, they're the 'leader', and therefore laden with responsibility somehow.
    Okay, but look at what else they removed from, say, DPS:
    • crowd-control,
    • aggro-increasing and decreasing- tools for snap threat to potentially save a tank or peel for a healer,
    • the ability to kite (and nearly all value for doing so),
    • the power of their self-mitigation relative to tanks' passive eHP bonuses or healer HPS,
    • etc.

    And healers, too, have been similarly gutted.

    It wasn't that they reduced proportionate responsibility on tanks. They stripped it from everyone, but while healers still have significant redundancies among other roles (especially tanks), tanks do not. As such, you essentially end up with roles comprising of:
    • Deal Damage,
    • Deal Damage + First-Hit + Pace-setting (Rarely) + Positioning (Rarely) + Some CDs You Don't Just "Hit on CD," and
    • Deal Damage + Compensate for Idiots (Variable) + Some CDs You Might Hold Onto (Rarely).

    Now, there's a huge difference in degree, of course, between the ceilings in that "Deal Damage" task, but it can easily still look like there's more going on as a tank than a DPS in no small part because they removed those additional categories of tasks from everyone, and thereby made the proportionate differences larger.
    (1)