Keep overpower cone shaped!

[MiaShino]

Anecdotally Xeno just did a stream covering tank changes and explained why circle Overpower is just better.

Will have to watch that. Hate circle aoes when playing tank. Have lost count of number of times they drift behind or simply wiff and miss targets two micro millimeters in front of you.

1. Doing backwards Overpower pulls effectively requires non-default controls.

Standard on controller, should be made standard on PC as Legacy is far superior in every single way.

2. Having to reposition every GCD when spamming Overpower into Mythril so you can hit everything is just clunky. If you need to reposition to group up mobs better, you can do that on every other tank with circle AoEs just fine.

Overpower cone was most wide and will hit targets to left and right of you. There is no reason to wiggle reposition into the center then back again.

3. Circle has a larger total area.

Yes. Around you. Which is fantastic if the mobs are already grouped up around you.

4. If you need to pick up stragglers, just use Voke or Tomahawk, though you'll likely have fewer stragglers to begin with because 3.

Nothing quite so riveting as flicking through targets that are behind you on controller that game refuses to target because they are now no longer within the camera. Or, or I could Overpower backwards onto the mob I already had targeted not only hitting the stray mobs but doing so with massive potency gain over Tomahawk.

This is absolutely a good quality of life change. Just because it wasn't that annoying, and you've learned to live with it, doesn't mean it was good. These threads are just a study on change aversion in humans. In two weeks none of you are going to care about this.

It was never annoying. Watched friend figure out backwards Overpower and other techniques her first time through Sastasha. Fricken Hall of the Novice teaches you how to aim Overpower. Good thing I still have Flood of Dankness, wonder when that will become another circle aoe so I cannot aim that one backwards either. Mmm, cannot wait!

[Neihel]

You say that like that's a bad thing.

ofcourse it's a bad thing when something interesting in a class is changed to appeal to people that aren't even playing it, can you look at what you're saying?

what if we somehow convince the devs to make DRK's unleash a cone eventhough we aren't DRK players then by your logic "It's not a bad thing"

also bringing up Xeno here is ridicolous when he has said multiple times that he doesn't do dungeons or really care for AOEs

1. Doing backwards Overpower pulls effectively requires non-default controls.

This is false, standard players can just rotate their camera to do the same overpowers if they want if you're struggling to do that then it's a skill issue

a class should not be changed because people refuse to learn it when there's easier alternatives available but I'll suggest we make unleash into a cone to appeal to us cone enjoyers

[Terhix]

ofcourse it's a bad thing when something interesting in a class is changed to appeal to people that aren't even playing it, can you look at what you're saying?

I don't know, can you look at what part of you I was quoting?

This is false, standard players can just rotate their camera to do the same overpowers if they want if you're struggling to do that then it's a skill issue

If you have to turn around with standard, that means you have to stop or, at best, backpedal, which means you are no longer sprinting to the next pack and getting hit for no reason. That is not effectively my dude.

[Neihel]

If you have to turn around with standard, that means you have to stop or, at best, backpedal, which means you are no longer sprinting to the next pack and getting hit for no reason. That is not effectively my dude.

you don't have to stop at all, you're just very slow at adjusting your camera again that seems to be a you issue maybe you can change your keybinds better. since you love to bring up Xenos he is also the same guy that made this video on adjusting your legacy controls to be identical to standard it's so strange that you ignore that as an xenos fan

https://youtu.be/5fXeFZx_0qs

[fulminating]

Anecdotally Xeno just did a stream covering tank changes and explained why circle Overpower is just better.

You say that like xenos opinion on this is worth anything. I can't think of any high end content outside of maybe a2s where warrior's aoe combo is remotely relevant. Has he not said multiple times that he cares not for dungeons? Did he not whinge hard enough that they put guaranteed crits on inner release? In addition this livestream is inconveniently sub only currently and I have no intention whatsoever of paying.

[Shurrikhan]

Anecdotally Xeno just did a stream covering tank changes and explained why circle Overpower is just better.

For what?

If any part of your enemies' massive hit-rings intersects the already massive conal AoE, you get a hit. Even with small enemies pushed out and towards your immediate flanks by larger enemies, there is no chance of missing an enemy with your conal AoE when using it correctly.

The radial AoE's only unique advantage is QoL. And you have to sacrifice range for that.

1. Doing backwards Overpower pulls effectively requires non-default controls.

No, it doesn't. You can just jump and lock your camera, just like with any other instant skill used when running away.

As a targeted skill, the direction of your animation is irrelevant. The cone will always be centered on your target.

2. Having to reposition every GCD when spamming Overpower into Mythril so you can hit everything is just clunky. If you need to reposition to group up mobs better, you can do that on every other tank with circle AoEs just fine.

You'd only ever need to move back and forth for Mythril if there would otherwise be more than 10 yalms' distance between the edges of the two most distant mobs' hit-rings. Such is incredibly rare.

Remember, AoEs do not strike enemy models; they strike their hit-rings, which are far, far larger. AoEs do not have to intersect the middle of those hit rings, either, only any part of them.

3. Circle has a larger total area.

Barely. A 8-yalm 120-degree conal AoE has an area of ~67 sq. yalms. A 5-yalm radial AoE has an area of ~78 sq. yalms. The difference is negligible relative to some quarter-seconds' movement in any given direction. Any cone wider than 140 degrees would already match it for total area.

And that's only been the case since mid-Stormblood, when all radial AoE sizes were increased in response to people complaining about radial AoEs being harder to hit all enemies with than conals. (Note: Linear AoEs were widened at the same time; until then, conals were the most reliable and easiest to use AoEs.)

4. If you need to pick up stragglers, just use Voke or Tomahawk, though you'll likely have fewer stragglers to begin with because 3.

For a single straggler, you'd use Provoke regardless (or, previously, you'd have used it to gather them into Overpower's formerly greater effective area of effect and thus have no stragglers).

The difference is merely that my AoE now has same range as enemy auto-attacks, meaning that if I want to hit multiple stragglers in the same GCD, I must get hit. So instead of just positioning halfway decently for a tool that could do all this in a single GCD, I'd now have to spend further GCDs or be hit.

[Colt47]

Anecdotally Xeno just did a stream covering tank changes and explained why circle Overpower is just better.



You say that like that's a bad thing.

1. Doing backwards Overpower pulls effectively requires non-default controls.
2. Having to reposition every GCD when spamming Overpower into Mythril so you can hit everything is just clunky. If you need to reposition to group up mobs better, you can do that on every other tank with circle AoEs just fine.
3. Circle has a larger total area.
4. If you need to pick up stragglers, just use Voke or Tomahawk, though you'll likely have fewer stragglers to begin with because 3.

This is absolutely a good quality of life change. Just because it wasn't that annoying, and you've learned to live with it, doesn't mean it was good. These threads are just a study on change aversion in humans. In two weeks none of you are going to care about this.

Xeno's analysis on overpower was pure satyr. The guy plays both Dark Knight and warrior, so he's used to having to utilize two skills to get the same effect that overpower originally provided. In actual practice the circle aoe is less useful than the cone aoe in the majority of combat scenarios that we run into due to the dungeon design being heavily linear, and the reach on the cone being significantly longer. It made it way less likely that a stray monster would start hitting other players in the group and pull the healer into needing to use a skill to heal another target member.

Also, in practice tanks do not like having targets behind them because of how the camera angle works in these types of games. You don't want your view being blocked by some large opponent, so even with the other tanks you'd usually try to move the targets into the front of you or at least to the sides. I don't know why the other tanks didn't have cone based AOEs to begin with.

However, there's definitely something kind of odd about the change. There might be something involving the infuriate rework, like they had to reuse code for dark knight to get that in. If that's the case than I can understand why this snuck in.

[Canadane]

Nothing is more embarrassing than running up to a group of mobs, hitting your AOE and just ...not hitting any because you happened to not be close enough.
Not only should Overpower remain a cone shape, but all the tanks should have something like this.

It was a lot easier to use as it requires a target, whereas the circle AOEs can just be blasted at nothing.

[LydiaF]

+1 for reverting it back to the cone!

I've always enjoyed the added flourish of "skill" using a cone required. I use the term skill loosely because really it just required a change of approach to grabbing groups, but I love how it felt, it felt aggressive and it felt different to other tanks.

I loved coming at groups from an angle and snapping them up in advance before I reached them. Now I body pull and it just feels... ugly.

As it stands, it's another nail in the coffin for a class I really used to enjoy the skill set of.

[MellowMink]

This is a really perplexing change that just takes away from overall job variety options, plus it’s jarring to still see many enemies use an identically named action that does something that the player’s version no longer does.