Square Enix slowing killing the fun.

[Kuroka]

Don't know what you're talking about, jobs are still very complex and unique.

I hate all those so much... those "ups healing, damage, whatever" for 5-10 sec" buffs... like, remove all of em, add the effects to skills and add more combos...

[Rilifane]

unoptimal means longer times in dungeons or fights, which majority of players seem to not have the patience for. You either 'git gud' or they vote kick you or they themselves leave. a no win situation when trying to progress.

I've been playing since ARR beta and I can say with absolute certainty that I have never, not once, in all these years seen someone get votekicked for playing suboptimal and making the run take a few minutes longer. And I mean suboptimal, not so bad that it's griefing like a tank not putting on stance and ignoring any requests to do so. Or a dps afking until a boss fight and waiting to get ported in, afking after the boss again.
Single pulling tanks, no dps healers, no aoe dps, auto attacking melees. I've seen it all and none of them got kicked. Ever. Mentioning dps in any way is prohibited and is risking a ban. Kicking someone out of nowhere because they are neither griefing, afking, offline or verbally abusing someone is also reportable.

Yes, many people don't like seeing a tank single pull past a certain level because any dps, including 'squishy casters', can tank a single pull so a tank going this slow is nothing but a gimped dps.
Yes, many people don't like seeing a healer that doesn't dps because even in wall to walls you have plenty of downtime and not dpsing means standing around doing nothing while everyone else is pushing buttons. It's even worse in boss fights.
Yes, many people don't like seeing a dps not using aoe because they all get it during ARR and it should be common sense to use them in a big pull.
There is no good excuse to do any of it because if someone has a good reason, they're welcome to communicate. Like "haven't tanked in forever, I'll go slower for now" or "broke my hand, I'll stick to healing".
You don't go into a dungeon and assume everyone is physically and mentally disabled, hasn't slept for 3 nights, hasn't played in months, is old enough to be your grandma and plays on a toaster far away from their physical DC.

You're just taking stories from the TfDF thread and assuming everyone that was mentioned for their poor gameplay got insulted and kicked. People even silently grit their teeth when someone only uses ARR CNJ skills in current Savage.

So... yes, you are absolutely welcome to play suboptimal. The option is there. If it doesn't feel nice and fluffy for you, that's 100% a you problem.
You have the option to play poorly and still clear every normal content so everyone else should also have the option to play well and have a skill ceiling. Forcing everyone to play at a level that is meant for physically disabled people is nothing short of egoistic. Not to mention extremely disrespectful because contrary to what you might think many of them are not fond of people suggesting that everything needs to be brought down to baby level gameplay so they don't feel stressed and pressured. It's insulting.

From the reactions to "Then just set priorities and ignore skill X for now if it's too complex for you", I'd wager that it has much more to do with people not liking the thought of not playing well but don't want to find ways to play at a level that feels nice for them.
But since saying "But I don't want to knowingly play below average, so please nerf everything that my current gameplay level is considered 'good'" doesn't sound as nice as "Won't someone think of the disabled???", they go with the latter.
Or call everyone a tryhard elitist hardore minority raider.

[DragonFlyy]

Main SGE and SCH, still having fun.

[SieyaM]

What a shame. At least you have better class identity in FFXI than in FFXIV.

You do, but you also have no real balance there either from what I understand. That seems to be the trade off and no one wants to make it. If you have jobs with a robust and unique identity then you seem to lose the ability to have them balanced in a fair way. Honestly I am all for balance not being the most important factor of development and letting jobs grow in ways that are fun and interesting, but the moment jobs start straying beyond a few hundred rdps of each other the raid community seems to collectively shit itself in rage so here we are.

[Foraet]

I don't understand how any game wouldn't be a faceroll after you've put 1800 hours into it. After running a dungeon so many times the only challenge left is compensating for people who don't know and haven't practiced the mechanics or dumb mistakes from complacency. Love it or hate it, after four expansions they're going to strip out old job gameplay so they can add new stuff, otherwise, the jobs would be incredibly bloated. If something got removed it was probably at the very bottom of a list of abilities and mechanics that people actually used. And yeah, some of this stuff is probably going to feel really easy, especially to someone who has 1800 hours in the game. :P

[VictorSpoils]

Main SGE and SCH, still having fun.

Rock on, fellow lala.

[Maikul]

Speaking of toxic, thank you for volunteering to be a perfect representation.

You do realize that some people who play the game might have difficulty due to physical disabilities right? that bloat and overly complex button mashing would be difficult for say someone with mobility issues?

such single minded thought process you have.

I can't stand the idea that the 90% of players should suffer because 10% don't have the ability. Not only that, the whole msq can be beaten by using the most basic abilities. It's not toxic, it's normal to want a video game to be fun.

[TaleraRistain]

Strangers of Paradise which was made for again, you people it failed because no one bought it but you people.

You realize that game has a Story Casual mode, right? I played on that mode. It was fun as hell. And the story is great. Action and higher are there for those who want to challenge themselves with the more Soulslike aspects.

[Lauront]

I've been playing since ARR beta and I can say with absolute certainty that I have never, not once, in all these years seen someone get votekicked for playing suboptimal and making the run take a few minutes longer. And I mean suboptimal, not so bad that it's griefing like a tank not putting on stance and ignoring any requests to do so. Or a dps afking until a boss fight and waiting to get ported in, afking after the boss again.

Agreed - in all my time playing the game, it's exceedingly rare that I've seen people votekicked, and usually it's for reasons like afk or griefing. Never have I seen it happen due to suboptimal performance, and that's even after some tips were given and not followed. As you say, its reportable anyway.

You have the option to play poorly and still clear every normal content so everyone else should also have the option to play well and have a skill ceiling. Forcing everyone to play at a level that is meant for physically disabled people is nothing short of egoistic. Not to mention extremely disrespectful because contrary to what you might think many of them are not fond of people suggesting that everything needs to be brought down to baby level gameplay so they don't feel stressed and pressured. It's insulting.

From the reactions to "Then just set priorities and ignore skill X for now if it's too complex for you", I'd wager that it has much more to do with people not liking the thought of not playing well but don't want to find ways to play at a level that feels nice for them.
But since saying "But I don't want to knowingly play below average, so please nerf everything that my current gameplay level is considered 'good'" doesn't sound as nice as "Won't someone think of the disabled???", they go with the latter.
Or call everyone a tryhard elitist hardore minority raider.

Well said.

[Maikul]

I don't understand how any game wouldn't be a faceroll after you've put 1800 hours into it. After running a dungeon so many times the only challenge left is compensating for people who don't know and haven't practiced the mechanics or dumb mistakes from complacency. Love it or hate it, after four expansions they're going to strip out old job gameplay so they can add new stuff, otherwise, the jobs would be incredibly bloated. If something got removed it was probably at the very bottom of a list of abilities and mechanics that people actually used. And yeah, some of this stuff is probably going to feel really easy, especially to someone who has 1800 hours in the game. :P

I don't mean old content that of course can be tedious when done alot. I just don't agree with making the classes so easy that your have only your combo and 2 off GCD, healers suffer the most from boring rotations. I'm also not saying the game is currently boring. The direction they are going will eventually hit that point is my problem.