White Mage's 6.1 changes fail to address a core issue I have with the job.

[ty_taurus]

Purgation/Temperance could be interesting idk if that could be pulled off tbh but even if not a simple heal buff could do the work

The thing about propagation is that its major gain is how it accelerates the misery rotation, Whm always uses dia every 30s, its something bound to happen, Propagation blend those times you reapply dia into the lily rotation so for example, lets act like propagation is the only thing introduced and a gcd of 2.5s, every minute a whm has 24 gcds and lets say they are all used for dpsing:

-Right now out of those 24: 2 are used on dia, lets say 3 on a lilly heal, 1 on misery and the remaining 18 on glare, this leads to 660*2+1240+18*310=8140 potency
-With propagation one of those dia casts would be replaced and as such we would have: 1 dia, 1 propagation, 2 lilly heals, 1 misery and (24-1-2-1-1=19) 19 glares, this leads to 660+660+1240+19*310=8450

Thats why it woudnt be held for heals but used on any lily refresh, I personally think its fine like this but as you can see if its use is tied to those moments dia is reapplied there is no point on holding a charge for later. Personally I think that if you want to add charges to an offensive action Purgation would be a better candidate, or even Efflorescence

Well that's kind of impossible to do when the cooldown is 60 seconds, and perhaps it would be best to raise it to 90 seconds, but you can't exactly use a lily that you gain 1 of every 20 seconds exclusively on a 60 second cooldown. You'd sit on so many wasted lilies that you'd be highly suboptimized.

[Semirhage]

It would at least provide interesting tradeoffs with the lily system, though I can see a rabbit hole of endless arguing about efficiency with holding lilies for the damage spell only, the problems inherent with mixing damage and healing resources, etc. It wouldn't be a bad start, but it shares a quibble with Energy Drain: it's got an obvious uneven disadvantage so long as AST and SGE have no opportunity costs, and can just do whatever for free. Still, it's orders of magnitude better choices than "I'll just overheal the currently 100% HP tank between trash packs because that's, silly though it is, the best decision here". I'd also love it if they solved the Glare Glare Glare issue, but I fear that's going to be the last beast we slay if we can even bring them around on it.

[ty_taurus]

It would at least provide interesting tradeoffs with the lily system, though I can see a rabbit hole of endless arguing about efficiency with holding lilies for the damage spell only, the problems inherent with mixing damage and healing resources, etc. It wouldn't be a bad start, but it shares a quibble with Energy Drain: it's got an obvious uneven disadvantage so long as AST and SGE have no opportunity costs, and can just do whatever for free. Still, it's orders of magnitude better choices than "I'll just overheal the currently 100% HP tank between trash packs because that's, silly though it is, the best decision here". I'd also love it if they solved the Glare Glare Glare issue, but I fear that's going to be the last beast we slay if we can even bring them around on it.

The issue is that Energy Drain can be used on theoretically every stack of Aetherflow a SCH generates, but if your damage options have cooldowns, then you know you're getting the most value out of those options so long as you're able to keep them on cooldown. In the case of Propagation as an example, you also don't need to worry about using it during burst windows because you'll get the same damage out of it or Dia regardless of which you use. As long as you're not sitting on 2 stacks, you can use your remaining lilies freely to heal without worry and have Efflorescence to help generate a new lily if you've been managing your existing ones poorly.

[Semirhage]

The issue is that Energy Drain can be used on theoretically every stack of Aetherflow a SCH generates, but if your damage options have cooldowns, then you know you're getting the most value out of those options so long as you're able to keep them on cooldown. In the case of Propagation as an example, you also don't need to worry about using it during burst windows because you'll get the same damage out of it or Dia regardless of which you use. As long as you're not sitting on 2 stacks, you can use your remaining lilies freely to heal without worry and have Efflorescence to help generate a new lily if you've been managing your existing ones poorly.

Good point. I'd actually like these changes; they'd at least show the design team has an awareness of how healers actually play. I mean, given my dream design and role balance I'd love it if WHM either had significant advantages over the other three in its theme areas or got some party utility instead of dedicating itself to being 2/3 of a job (damage, healing, and something else) while not really excelling in the 2/3 it has in exchange for the 1/3 it has gutted out, but that's also another issue entirely

[ty_taurus]

Good point. I'd actually like these changes; they'd at least show the design team has an awareness of how healers actually play. I mean, given my dream design and role balance I'd love it if WHM either had significant advantages over the other three in its theme areas or got some party utility instead of dedicating itself to being 2/3 of a job (damage, healing, and something else) while not really excelling in the 2/3 it has in exchange for the 1/3 it has gutted out, but that's also another issue entirely

Something I'd love to add to each healer as well would be some kind of buff attached to your AoE spell. I'm not a fan of the total separation of Single Target and AoE in this game because very few fights require both. It can be interesting in an example like Tower at Paradigm's Breach's second boss where you have two bosses that sometimes can be hit by AoEs or the Magus Sisters at the Tower of Zot, but beyond that, you always have a few-to-a-handful of buttons that are virtually useless for the entirety of a fight. Finding ways that AoE buttons can be useful during single target as well could help healers out with having more to do during downtime and clearing up hotbar space for DPS. In the case of healers, what I have in mind would be something like:

Holy III: Increases own DPS and healing output by 5% for 45 seconds.
Art of War II: Increases own critical hit chance by 5% for 30 seconds.
Gravity: Decreases own cast time and recast time by 8% for 30 seconds.
Dyskrasia II: Changes with Eukrasia to be 60 potency with a 60 potency DoT for 18 seconds.

[Semirhage]

Something I'd love to add to each healer as well would be some kind of buff attached to your AoE spell. I'm not a fan of the total separation of Single Target and AoE in this game because very few fights require both. It can be interesting in an example like Tower at Paradigm's Breach's second boss where you have two bosses that sometimes can be hit by AoEs or the Magus Sisters at the Tower of Zot, but beyond that, you always have a few-to-a-handful of buttons that are virtually useless for the entirety of a fight. Finding ways that AoE buttons can be useful during single target as well could help healers out with having more to do during downtime and clearing up hotbar space for DPS. In the case of healers, what I have in mind would be something like:

Holy III: Increases own DPS and healing output by 5% for 45 seconds.
Art of War II: Increases own critical hit chance by 5% for 30 seconds.
Gravity: Decreases own cast time and recast time by 8% for 30 seconds.
Dyskrasia II: Changes with Eukrasia to be 60 potency with a 60 potency DoT for 18 seconds.

The changes to RDM's finisher combo made me grin with how simple they were, and how neatly they took care of the dull AOE problem while also not adding another 5 spells in the design space that only see use for trash packs. Where two expansions ago you were stuck on Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter. I kiiiiind of want to stick whoever is responsible for RDM in a room and give them a crack at healers. Just tell them they're working on a brand new take on RDM from scratch and do a gameshow switcheroo last second, all "HA! Look at that, you were working on a healer this whole time!" When they get good design, they really seem to get it. When they don't, there's so much floundering.

[Yhisa]

What u on about theae white mages changes are soooooooo gooood

20sec on lillies ? Awsome yes please...this means misery every 60sec

Or if ur smart u can save it for the 120sec mega burst window with trick with 2x misery and Pom + glare spamage that 2500 potency is yummy in a 20sec burst window thats alot of damage (im gonna do this even if its not ideal, just to blow stuff up with petals)

Ohh and that mp problem whm have? Yeah thats 100% gone thin air cure 3 or thin air raise, thin air medica......or use lilies with confession

Basically our entire mp bar now is legit for glares only and dia

[Yhisa]

Also just to add....

People saying 'lilies will result to overhealing" when reality that isnt true, we want to be actively using them on legit every mechanic to obtain the delicious misery every 60sec

We may want to stop using medica 2 aswell to get more blood lily back aswell.....this entire change legit forces the WHM to prioritize lilies consumption over everything

So atm with these changes....cure 3, medica 2, cure, cure 2, medica 1.....shouldnt even be on your bars.....so start using those lilies baby to do petal nukes, even if medica 2 is stronger healing potency...u still want to use lilies to get towards the blood lily

Sooo morel of the story is

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!!!

[ty_taurus]

Also just to add....

People saying 'lilies will result to overhealing" when reality that isnt true, we want to be actively using them on legit every mechanic to obtain the delicious misery every 60sec

We may want to stop using medica 2 aswell to get more blood lily back aswell.....this entire change legit forces the WHM to prioritize lilies consumption over everything

So atm with these changes....cure 3, medica 2, cure, cure 2, medica 1.....shouldnt even be on your bars.....so start using those lilies baby to do petal nukes, even if medica 2 is stronger healing potency...u still want to use lilies to get towards the blood lily

Sooo morel of the story is

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!!!

The issue is that you're encouraged to burn lilies between pulls in dungeons or 24-man raids as well as in fights with downtime. The OP mentioned specifically Ultimate fights where there tend to be several instances of phase changes where nothing is targetable for damage. Therefore WHMs burn down their lilies and will continue to do so because it's a greater DPS gain than using them as healing tools. This is not something that completely invalidates the value of using them as heals when necessary, but the best WHMs will use their lilies sparingly to try and preserve them for when burning through them can be done in fights where that's possible. And in casual content like dungeon bosses, there's a genuine concern that you'll often be using them when people don't need healing because there's nothing to heal and you don't want to overcap.

As a Sage, I get free addersgall every 20 seconds, which will be the same for WHM's lilies, and I often spend more addersgall on overhealing with Druochole because there's nothing for me to heal than I spend on actually needed heals just to get that MP return. This even happens in Savage. There are several moments in especially P1S and P2S where I will use Druochole to avoid capping, and WHM players will experience the same thing.

The change we got is a huge step forward, and one that I don't think any of us want to revert, but that doesn't change the fact that there are still issues that need to be worked out.

[Semirhage]

Also just to add....

People saying 'lilies will result to overhealing" when reality that isnt true, we want to be actively using them on legit every mechanic to obtain the delicious misery every 60sec

We may want to stop using medica 2 aswell to get more blood lily back aswell.....this entire change legit forces the WHM to prioritize lilies consumption over everything

So atm with these changes....cure 3, medica 2, cure, cure 2, medica 1.....shouldnt even be on your bars.....so start using those lilies baby to do petal nukes, even if medica 2 is stronger healing potency...u still want to use lilies to get towards the blood lily

Sooo morel of the story is

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!!!

At that point, why not put Misery on a 60 second cooldown, make lilies oGCD, and divorce Misery from the lily system entirely? It's functionally the same as blowing all of your lilies on cooldown for access to the refund nuke. That's one of my major beefs with the lily system as it's currently implemented: it certainly encourages something, but judicious ability usage ain't it.