Thread: White Mage's 6.1 changes fail to address a core issue I have with the job.

Originally Posted by Leonerdo

As for everyone else complaining about WHM, when we just got huge buffs... I guess you really can't please everyone. This is why SQEX ignores the forums 90% of the time. No matter what they do, people will complain that their class is being destroyed.

I mean really, I had a ONE single change on my wishlist: 2 charges for Assize. I didn't even get that, but I'm still very happy with the changes we did get. After thinking about it, the extra lily every 60 seconds gives me what I wanted from Assize charges anyways: A little more healing and less cooldown drift on Assize. (At 2.45 GCD Assize would clip the GCD or drift, and now I can burn a lily more freely to decrease the drift).

I'm just astounded at some people's complete lack of gratitude. It's not healthy. And by gratitude I don't mean the social performance of thanks. I mean emotionally appreciating good things in your life.

Edit:

This is a better mindset. WHM gained a lot today. It might not be perfect, but it's 2 or 3 steps forward.

I agree largely. PVE healing has not been fixed and still has a lot to address if we want to see healing move in the right direction. It's been years of neglect that many of us have had to endure as we watched the role we loved and grew fond of get torn apart down to the floorboards, so it's tough. The lily changes are a massive step forward and shows that they actually are paying attention to healer feedback to some degree. It may very well work in our favor to acknowledge the step forward in order to try and direct the road ahead of that.

It's a shame that they didn't address every aspect of healer feedback and time travel to the past to correct it like everyone wants, but the best thing that we can do to try and push the role in the direction we want is to encourage good changes while continuing to critically discuss the remaining issues.

I think everyone getting worked up over the Aero II/Dia situation is a bit unnecessary. It's very obviously a typo and not the only typo in the list of changes either. PVP MCH lists that Chainsaw has a 5% chance to instantly KO an opponent in one location while it states it has a 3% chance in another location. It cannot both be a 3% chance and a 5% chance at the same time, so it's clearly an error. Yeah, it's sloppy, but small things make it through the cracks from time-to-time. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

"I pissed in your cereal but I fixed it for you, you should be grateful."

Fixing a mistake that you caused is not praiseworthy, it's merely meeting expectations. I'll give praise where it's due, like the PvP healer changes are absolutely phenomenal and I applaud whoever did. The PvE side of thing however, are just fixing something that should've been dealt with to start with and even then, they still screwed up with Dia now being a downgrade to Aero 2. Why would I be grateful that?

Your feelings may very well be justified, but is that the most effective way of evoking change? We've seen that the dev team doesn't like to respond to derogatory feedback. Sometimes it doesn't matter who's right or wrong in a situation if you're trying to manipulate the scenario to yield the results you're after.

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Your feelings may very well be justified, but is that the most effective way of evoking change? We've seen that the dev team doesn't like to respond to derogatory feedback. Sometimes it doesn't matter who's right or wrong in a situation if you're trying to manipulate the scenario to yield the results you're after.

I disagree with the entire direction they've taken the role, and WHM in particular. I've been polite about it before, and they've been dismissive in return. I'm dismissive of the "fixes" we've had over the last several years, because all of said fixes continue to take the role in the same boring direction: you will spam the single target nuke, you will overheal, and you will like it.

I will be dissatisfied until there's an entire rework/redesign, and I'm aware of that.

Originally Posted by Semirhage

I disagree with the entire direction they've taken the role, and WHM in particular. I've been polite about it before, and they've been dismissive in return. I'm dismissive of the "fixes" we've had over the last several years, because all of said fixes continue to take the role in the same boring direction: you will spam the single target nuke, you will overheal, and you will like it.

I will be dissatisfied until there's an entire rework/redesign, and I'm aware of that.

I don't disagree with you. I've been playing this game since day 1 of ARR, and between then and the end of Shadowbringers, I only played SCH and AST. I leveled a few early on, but never loved any of them like I loved SCH and AST. Shadowbringers eradicated the only two jobs I loved. If it wasn't for DNC, I don't know what I would've played. I get the pain that you feel, and I don't think harsh feedback is unwarranted.

What I am saying is that they have finally started actually responding to global complaints of jobs like DRK and WHM, and neither of those jobs are now "fixed." They've fixed the leaking pipes and now there's the rest of the house that needs addressed, but I think there is value in acknowledging the pipes to showcase that we are on board with that direction and want to see that direction continued. If there's just nothing but more bitter anger, that might translate poorly into the reception of those changes. It would be wonderful if they could just time travel back to Shadowbringers, or even Stormblood, and redirect the path of healing design, but that's not going to happen. I want to try and focus in on what we can do now to get us to the destination we want to be at or as close as possible.

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I don't disagree with you. I've been playing this game since day 1 of ARR, and between then and the end of Shadowbringers, I only played SCH and AST. I leveled a few early on, but never loved any of them like I loved SCH and AST. Shadowbringers eradicated the only two jobs I loved. If it wasn't for DNC, I don't know what I would've played. I get the pain that you feel, and I don't think harsh feedback is unwarranted.

What I am saying is that they have finally started actually responding to global complaints of jobs like DRK and WHM, and neither of those jobs are now "fixed." They've fixed the leaking pipes and now there's the rest of the house that needs addressed, but I think there is value in acknowledging the pipes to showcase that we are on board with that direction and want to see that direction continued. If there's just nothing but more bitter anger, that might translate poorly into the reception of those changes. It would be wonderful if they could just time travel back to Shadowbringers, or even Stormblood, and redirect the path of healing design, but that's not going to happen. I want to try and focus in on what we can do now to get us to the destination we want to be at or as close as possible.

I completely get where you're coming from too. I like to think of myself as one of the voices harshly criticizing the role from the fringe, especially WHM. I think the insistence that WHM remain boring and terribly designed is what got the role into this mess in the first place, and the last thing I want everyone to do is fall into complacency with WHM's clunktastic, overhealing, forever-stuck-in-ARR design space. If the two axioms the devs want to follow are to keep the role "balanced", and to keep WHM's eternal bad/anachronistic design, then the entire role is going to see itself balanced around bad design.

If I have to grudgingly give current lilies praise over the Stormblood iteration, they at least allow you to make choices. They encourage you to make bizarre and stupid choices more often than they encourage thoughtful ones, but at least they aren't passive.

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

"I pissed in your cereal but I fixed it for you, you should be grateful."

Fixing a mistake that you caused is not praiseworthy, it's merely meeting expectations. I'll give praise where it's due, like the PvP healer changes are absolutely phenomenal and I applaud whoever did. The PvE side of thing however, are just fixing something that should've been dealt with to start with and even then, they still screwed up with Dia now being a downgrade to Aero 2. Why would I be grateful that?

That is another awfully negative mindset. Mistakes are inevitable in life, and acknowledging and fixing those mistakes is necessary. So continuing to critique the mistake and ignoring the fix is backwards as heck. It just makes the fixing part seem worthless, so why bother improving. "Anything less than perfection is worthless." But perfection is impossible if you don't start with a few mistakes and fix them. I hope you never raise a child.

Originally Posted by Leonerdo

That is another awfully negative mindset. Mistakes are inevitable in life, and acknowledging and fixing those mistakes is necessary. So continuing to critique the mistake and ignoring the fix is backwards as heck. It just makes the fixing part seem worthless, so why bother improving. "Anything less than perfection is worthless." But perfection is impossible if you don't start with a few mistakes and fix them. I hope you never raise a child.

I hope to never raise a child either, I genuinely don't have the patience for it but that's neither here nor there.

I can forgive a mistake, if a genuine effort is made to understand WHY that mistake happened. SE has made a LOT of mistakes when it comes to healers and the few fixes that they do toss our way don't feel genuine to me. They feel like something to get us to shut up and nothing else. Take SB, for example. There was a ton of backlash due to the removal of Energy Drain, the horrible Lily System, how weak Noct Sect was, etc so SE gave back ED, did some mild changes to the Lily system at the time as a bandaid and buffed Noct Sect a little bit at a time and we became complacent. Come ShB and they lobotomized healers fully, homogenizing them all to such an extent that healers now share 80% of our toolkits, and we're still actively complaining about how there's nothing to heal, how oversaturated our Healing toolkits are and how we're tired of the 1 button snooze fest that is Healer "rotations". "Complacency is the forerunner of Mediocrity" and Healers are already Mediocre as is so I'm refusing to be complacent this time. Call me negative, call me toxic, call me an ass, I don't care because I'm tired of being treated as a second class citizen in this game and if I have to be labelled as "ungrateful" so be it.