Machinist class is dead

[darkdyllon]

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

this take is so bad.
MCH is an PURE DPS an SELFISH DPS, by design they should be outshining other jobs in DPS, which MCH isn't doing btw.
BRD has songs that passively buff everyone around them, DNC has their dances and ofcourse dance partner, what does MCH have? their AOE mitigation, which BRD and DNC also have, yet MCH does less damage than both it's competitors in the same role?
why is BLM always near SAM? they're opposite on the spectrum, 1 is melee 1 is an caster, both are selfish DPS.
that's why it was stupid when SMN in SHB was top DPS, it brought more to the team than DPS, yet was also top DPS? same in EW, where BLM and SAM were below MNK and RPR, both MNK and RPR add more to the team than just DPS, so what justifies SAM and BLM?

SAM being drama queens is because the whole identity and the feel of the job was stripped, imagine BLM being able to just move freely, not really BLM anymore right?
SMN became as braindead as they possibly could get away with, instead of managing DoTs they just press 1 context sensitive button to keep casting, have 5 seconds to spare to cast twice, then just full insta casts again, it's not an option that would lead to an DPS loss (meaning you needed to know the fight and your job) now it's just an straight up insta cast fest.

[Serenaya]

SAM are not just drama queens due to identity, it's due to the devs anti-synergistic direction as a justification for selfish DPS being able to stand up on their own in this case. MCH on the other hand also has that in the form of reassemble, yet still doesn't do nearly enough. It's the tipe of the iceberg when it comes to issues with MCH, but the idea of a phys-ranged pure DPS doesn't make sense in the first place yet they keep doubling down on it. It doesn't work, and it needs to change.

[MikoRemi]

SAM are not just drama queens due to identity, it's due to the devs anti-synergistic direction as a justification for selfish DPS being able to stand up on their own in this case. MCH on the other hand also has that in the form of reassemble, yet still doesn't do nearly enough. It's the tipe of the iceberg when it comes to issues with MCH, but the idea of a phys-ranged pure DPS doesn't make sense in the first place yet they keep doubling down on it. It doesn't work, and it needs to change.

My biggest fear honestly is that if Kaiten removal remains, what would stop them from removing Reassemble? If they kept going after that, who knows what they'd go after next, the DPS could just become as simple as Healer.

As put by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep‎, they need to change things around so the skill floor can be low, but the skill ceiling needs to be high. Otherwise what's even the point, just to cater to the casuals who will still fail at easy content even when it's as simple as one button because god forbid you actually have to pay attention to tooltips, learn your job, or you know...play the game? Especially since this is in essence a team game, so it only hurts others to not want to learn...that's a whole other tangent though.

[Serenaya]

My biggest fear honestly is that if Kaiten removal remains, what would stop them from removing Reassemble? If they kept going after that, who knows what they'd go after next, the DPS could just become as simple as Healer.

As put by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep‎, they need to change things around so the skill floor can be low, but the skill ceiling needs to be high. Otherwise what's even the point, just to cater to the casuals who will still fail at easy content even when it's as simple as one button because god forbid you actually have to pay attention to tooltips, learn your job, or you know...play the game? Especially since this is in essence a team game, so it only hurts others to not want to learn...that's a whole other tangent though.

There is an inherent issue with SE's mindset when it comes to simplifying or changing jobs. We can use Yoshi-P's musings about the BLM Enochian change as an example. They said the change was made because they wanted to make it easier to keep up. The issue is, lazy/bad players that don't want to improve, will struggle just as much regardless of what they do because they don't want to get better. It doesn't matter if jobs get easier or harder, the bottom of the barrel will always be the bottom of the barrel because complexity isn't the issue - attitude is the problem.

With that aside, a higher optimisation ceiling would be nice but it's still counter to the design of physical ranged, let alone MCH. I don't think it's the solution we need unless we inadvertently end up doing enough damage after several patches of minor potency buffs adding up which will end up upsetting those playing other jobs because we'll be "too overpowered" for how simple the job is to learn, even if consistency is the key to good damage on the class.

Let's not pretend Reassemble really adds much to the skill level of MCH, but having charges of stuff does allow for freedom of optimising its use in a general sense.

[MikoRemi]

Reassemble may not be skillful but it puts more "oomph" into things which is appreciated over just the skills in general doing guaranteed crits or whatever where that impact is just felt less, that's why many Samurai are pretty up in arms over Kaiten, besides just being something to manage it was also just good for the finishers.

The thing is, if Machinist was actually a difficult job much like a selfish DPS, but still easier than the others, it wouldn't end up being overpowered due to having to actually work for that damage. Ideally I would want it to be slightly above Reaper at most, still under Monk and Ninja who are high execution and melee, then of course Black Mage and Samurai who are...Black Mage and Samurai. The thing is, current Machinist can't earn that damage, but my reworked one can given it would have a few more limitations to it but at the very least some justifiable ones.

Personally I didn't mind the Enochian change especially because some fights can kill your Enochian through no fault of your own(like the newest dungeon or even Copied Factory when heading to the final boss on the pod), but then having ripped away Healer's damage buttons in Shadowbringers, not trying to make tank stance dancing an actual thing across all tanks, and keeping the fact that DPS could support with things like Mana Shift/Refresh/Goad/Etc. or Healers keeping up damage with the OGCD Cleric Stance, it's a bit worrying how much easier they want to make it despite the fact that as you say, those who don't want to improve won't and will struggle regardless. All it would hurt is the players who actually care which sucks a lot.