Machinist class is dead

[Pidgeon]

Hello Machinist players we've heard your complaints loud and clear. As part of the ongoing Machinist balance changes we have announced we will be adding 10 [10!] potency every 0.5 patch to Drill, Chainsaw, and Air Anchor. /s

[Cyd3l]

Comparing MCH to SAM or BLM is asinine. It may be a "selfish" DPS but it doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as those two. In fact, its own personal DPS is lower than EVERY melee DPS, even the ones that ALSO bring a raid buff.

No meta comp is going to bring two physical ranged DPS. That's how poorly they're balanced. If you're picking a DNC or BRD, there is no room in the group for MCH. Every melee DPS brings more personal damage, either a LOT more like SAM, or a little more and an additional raid buff MCH doesn't have. Even RDM and SMN are neck and neck with it, while also bringing their own raid buffs and support.

And even if you do bring two physical ranged for the memes, a MCH will still contribute less to their DNC or BRD friend's rDPS than every other NON-selfish DPS in the game.

No disagreement here. Its why i am saying there is a bigger issue with the entire Phys Ranged role not being that desirable than just MCH's performance alone. As it is there is only ever room for 1 phys ranged, (if that). So which ever phys ranged dps is the best is the one people want. How is MCH doing more dmg than Bard and DNC going to fix anything, just shifting which class is the worst. We need solutions that makes the role actually desirable to begin with and not a hinderance to the raid party. I wasn't suggesting Dancer + MCH was actually viable, just explaining how RDPS and buffs work and that a Dancer + MCH combo would do more dps total than a Dancer + Dancer / Bard. Of course no one is going to do that, Melee are king but thats the even bigger issue that really needs to be addressed somehow.

[Cyd3l]

Outside of DF, when did you ever have 4 physical ranged dps in a party? Or even three, two of which being dnc and one dnc allready snagging the not-phys-ranged dps for their dancepartner?

You guys are missing the point, I wasn't saying DNC + MCH is good, just using it to explain how pairing with high personal DPS classes is necessary for buff classes to also reach high numbers. MCH obv is the worst choice of them, yes again THEY NEED BUFFS. But just making them always do better than DNC and Bard only changes MCH from having no place in raids to BRD and DNC now having no place in raids. Bring MCH to similar levels, or revamp the whole phys ranged role (preferable). Just making MCH out perform DNC and BRD? Makes no sense unless you just want to go from 1 dead class to 2. We need better solutions.

[Serenaya]

I presented a detailed opinion of the issues in another thread, I'll just leave the link to it here and move on since I don't want to repeat myself but consider that some input for this one. Pretty difficult to remain hopeful that the devs will pay any attention since they haven't for years and seem content on continuing to ignore MCH players plight. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5890630

Ultimately I agree with any decent takes here but this is a thread that seems to be alive so keep it going.

[Kitfox]

I presented a detailed opinion of the issues in another thread, I'll just leave the link to it here and move on since I don't want to repeat myself but consider that some input for this one. Pretty difficult to remain hopeful that the devs will pay any attention since they haven't for years and seem content on continuing to ignore MCH players plight. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5890630

Ultimately I agree with any decent takes here but this is a thread that seems to be alive so keep it going.

It was a good take in the other thread. Honestly just making more and more threads and keeping all of them alive might be the best strategy considering all the long threads from before did nothing. Headlines sell, so it's better to have more of them.

[ForteNightshade]

How is MCH doing more dmg than Bard and DNC going to fix anything, just shifting which class is the worst.

I literally outlined precisely why this isn't happening; a post you've conveniently ignored. Machinist needs to be the Samurai of Prange, where it does monstrously high damage under raid buffs. It isn't. In fact, it's contributing a third the overall contribution of Dancer and Bard.

[Serenaya]

It was a good take in the other thread. Honestly just making more and more threads and keeping all of them alive might be the best strategy considering all the long threads from before did nothing. Headlines sell, so it's better to have more of them.

I hope you're right, friend.

[gamerseb]

Comparing MCH to SAM or BLM is asinine. It may be a "selfish" DPS but it doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as those two. In fact, its own personal DPS is lower than EVERY melee DPS, even the ones that ALSO bring a raid buff.

No meta comp is going to bring two physical ranged DPS. That's how poorly they're balanced. If you're picking a DNC or BRD, there is no room in the group for MCH. Every melee DPS brings more personal damage, either a LOT more like SAM, or a little more and an additional raid buff MCH doesn't have. Even RDM and SMN are neck and neck with it, while also bringing their own raid buffs and support.

And even if you do bring two physical ranged for the memes, a MCH will still contribute less to their DNC or BRD friend's rDPS than every other NON-selfish DPS in the game.

I agree with everything you wrote here 100%.

It almost feels like MCH's damage is balanced with a personal buff in mind that does not yet exist, that gives him the extra 5-10% he needs to be in line with DNC and BRD.

I'm ok with selfish DPS classes being balanced to have highest rDPS in low performing groups, and lowest rDPS in high performing ones - due to how buff dynamics work. In the same way, I find it's ok for buff classes like BRD and DNC to have lower rDPS in low performing groups and higher rDPS in better ones.

However, that is not the reality we have. Both SAM and BLM, two other selfish classes, are placed higher than they should in both cases - they almost always outperform the others in the same role. And MCH is always at the bottom.

It's ok for damage to diverge based on class complexity - BLM is understandably complex, so I'm not against them dealing some more damage. But between BRD, DNC and MCH, there isn't really a huge gap. So why is our damage so low then?

[Kitfox]

I honestly don't even know why it would be so bad for double ranged compositions to exist. Double melee and double caster are fine. Ranged classes don't even bring a combat raise and SMN is just as mobile as any physical ranged class. There's really no composition where MCH fits in: it doesn't buff anyone, and it doesn't do enough damage to use buffs well.

[Ayche]

I literally outlined precisely why this isn't happening; a post you've conveniently ignored. Machinist needs to be the Samurai of Prange, where it does monstrously high damage under raid buffs. It isn't. In fact, it's contributing a third the overall contribution of Dancer and Bard.

Yeah, but prange tax is not going away with just the facts. You know, everyone knows the amount of noise the Black Mage community is going to make if crit drill is going to be equal to them.
And gun mage is never coming back, it would be insane if it did.