Machinist class is dead

[EhvaTaco]

If that can make you feel better. Samurai is on suicide watch right now and Summoner ain't looking too good.

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

[gamerseb]

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

I agree that the game is designed like this. But it's sad. It means, if you want to play high-end content, you cannot choose any class. Some classes are less viable for it, and better for "beginners".

It would make way more sense if the potential of all classes was closer together, and the effort to get there was similar, as well. Keeping class floors and ceiling, but adding complexity where it needs to be. MCH is free to move around and has no positional restrictions? Then add some difficulty in rotation and optimization instead. Would sure please most people complaining about MCH now.

[Aikaal]

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

It's not about damage, it's about class identity. They removed a core ability of Samurai and what did they gained in exchange? Damage neutrality if they don't play with certain jobs. If they play with jobs that give crit buffs, those changes were a nerf. It's not about being a drama queen. I don't even have Samurai to 90 and I feel bad for them. Summoner got a braindead buff. They don't need to think about swiftcast now on Ifrit. It was already braindead. I can already see people say; "That's a mobility buff." :clowns:

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

It's not about damage, it's about class identity. They removed a core ability of Samurai and what did they gained in exchange? Damage neutrality if they don't play with certain jobs. If they play with jobs that give crit buffs, those changes were a nerf. It's not about being a drama queen. I don't even have Samurai to 90 and I feel bad for them. Summoner got a braindead buff. They don't need to think about swiftcast now on Ifrit. It was already braindead. I can already see people say; "That's a mobility buff." :clowns:

I duuno, I maimed Sam for 4 years and I never thought kaiten was core to the job.

The iaijutsu were core. But never kaiten.

Switched to DRG this expansion because Sam felt too busy. May switch back with kaiten being gone.

[Kolsykol]

I duuno, I maimed Sam for 4 years and I never thought kaiten was core to the job.

The iaijutsu were core. But never kaiten.

Switched to DRG this expansion because Sam felt too busy. May switch back with kaiten being gone.

Considering that Kaiten was tied to Iaijutsus and the only other Kenki skill that actually added some variety and depth to it, yeah I'd say it was core to the Job...

Edit: Also DRG only had like 1 APM lower than SAM...
And way clunkier weaving ( altho it got better this patch, I'd say this patch did significantly more to make DRG smoother ).

[EhvaTaco]

Summoner got a braindead buff. They don't need to think about swiftcast now on Ifrit. It was already braindead. I can already see people say; "That's a mobility buff." :clowns:

It is not a braindead buff. It's a change to reinforce the design around Ruby Ifrit - to have strong but slow casts. You are still expected to cast it outside of high movement windows but if you have to or want to, you can still use swift. It just won't be necessary anymore for DPS.

[Aikaal]

It is not a braindead buff. It's a change to reinforce the design around Ruby Ifrit - to have strong but slow casts. You are still expected to cast it outside of high movement windows but if you have to or want to, you can still use swift. It just won't be necessary anymore for DPS.

Realistically, what do you need swiftcast for now? Quickcast your slipstream so it fits the buff windows and then what? MOBILITY? I'm pretty sure all Summoners don't need Swiftcast for Mobility. It'll only be used to cast a raise but the problem still remains you need Swiftcast every 2 minutes so you didn't achieve anything with that change lol. SMN got roughly a sub 1% buff.

I'll say it. It doesn't matter on the long run. What matters is they made a brain dead job ever more brain dead. SMN is still outclassed by RDM and should you pump into pure damage and ignore your raise option, you're just outclassed by BLM and RDM.

I will say this also.

Titan GCD: 330+180(oGCD). 480/2.5s = 192 potency per second. (instant)
Ifrit GCD: 510/3s = 170 potency per second. (hard cast)
Crimson Strikes/Cyclone: 430/2.5 = 172 potency per second (instant)

I ask you this friend. How is this strong and how does it make it more advantageous to hardcast it over spells that are stronger and instant cast.

It is a buff overall but you'll still use this as filler.

[AnkanV]

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

That would hold if brd and dnc didn't bring much more utility along with higher DPS. Given that MCH is a fairly selfish dps, it should outdps the other two physical ranged jobs. And I am not sure the changes actually closes that dmg gap in any significant way.

[Cyd3l]

That would hold if brd and dnc didn't bring much more utility along with higher DPS. Given that MCH is a fairly selfish dps, it should outdps the other two physical ranged jobs. And I am not sure the changes actually closes that dmg gap in any significant way.

It does out dps the other two physical ranged jobs, by a lot actually. If you're referring to RDPS and not DPS then yes it falls behind there. But if you think MCH should do more personal dmg than Bard and Dancer and also do more RDPS than Bard and Dancer, what exactly would be the point of Bard and Dancer even existing. MCH has issues for sure, the entire Phys Ranged role has issues. Simply making it outperform Bard and Dancer in everything isn't a solution.

There's a big issue with people on this forum demanding changes looking at FFLOGS (sorted by RDPS) and assuming thats personal DPS. MCH literally does around 15% more dmg than both Dancer and Bard in straight up DPS comparison.

[HyoMinPark]

It does out dps the other two physical ranged jobs, by a lot actually. If you're referring to RDPS and not DPS then yes it falls behind there. But if you think MCH should do more personal dmg than Bard and Dancer and also do more RDPS than Bard and Dancer, what exactly would be the point of Bard and Dancer even existing. MCH has issues for sure, the entire Phys Ranged role has issues. Simply making it outperform Bard and Dancer in everything isn't a solution.

There's a big issue with people on this forum demanding changes looking at FFLOGS (sorted by RDPS) and assuming thats personal DPS. MCH literally does around 15% more dmg than both Dancer and Bard in straight up DPS comparison.

You have to kind of look at both: because BRD and DNC are “support” physical ranged that buff the group, you consider rDPS for them. MCH is “selfish”, so you want to consider aDPS for them since it doesn’t bring any buffs to the group to get rDPS gains from. MCH obviously does more aDPS than BRD and DNC, but aDPS is not the metric that matters for them. It’s rDPS, so you look at that.
If we looked strictly at aDPS, a job like DNC would have been in the grave all last expansion—yet it dominated the role.

Currently, I’m looking at 95th percentiles for the Savage fights, and MCH’s aDPS does not outweigh the rDPS of BRD and DNC in P1S, P2S, P3S, or P4S phase 2. P4S door boss is the only fight at that percentile where MCH’s aDPS is close to the rDPS of BRD and DNC (around ~8,300 to 8,400)—and it’s still technically a bit lower.

I’m not sure how much the potency changes will give it, but it doesn’t really change the fact that MCH doesn’t bring anything to the table that BRD and DNC don’t already. The only thing it has is its damage, and BRD/DNC buff the party more than MCH gives damage.