Machinist class is dead

[HolyReign]

I think saying it's, "5x Harder than the rest." is a bit of a stretch.

All FFXIV's content is able to be done, by any job, as long as those people know how to play their job, understand the mechanics and what their role is in the group, it's going to be fine.

Judging a job purely based on the numbers it provides to a group, and deeming it worthy of being in a static or not, just breeds an unhealthy atmosphere in the game where, unless your playing the, "Meta", you're not going to stand a chance to be part of it, unless you form your own groups.

[CKNovel]

All FFXIV's content is able to be done, by any job, as long as those people know how to play their job, understand the mechanics and what their role is in the group, it's going to be fine.

Judging a job purely based on the numbers it provides to a group, and deeming it worthy of being in a static or not, just breeds an unhealthy atmosphere in the game where, unless your playing the, "Meta", you're not going to stand a chance to be part of it, unless you form your own groups.

If we stick to that argument, then what's the problem with MCH having more DPS if "all job can clear and we shouldn't judge jobs based on numbers?"
In this present case, MCH is not only judged for its lack of numbers, but also lack of support.

[Gember]

Sadly, it does.

When you do high-end content and fail, but would have succeeded if you had a different job - any job at all - playing your own class loses meaning. It just means everything else is 5 times harder for you than the rest, and your damage is lower than everyone else.

Stop saying that it's not a problem. Cause for players who do high-end content, it sure is. And for players who use party finder, it sure is, too.

Why do you think devs adjust numbers if they're "not important", if I should just "stop worrying about the numbers" and "play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability"?

I dunno, phys range is always wanted in PF, and every job has beat every single piece of content. Its just meta gamer thoughts. You probably should think more about team comp than numbers. I rather have a skilled MCH than a player who barely knows their job because they swap for the meta. This game isn't that strict to choices.

[gamerseb]

I rather have a skilled MCH than a player who barely knows their job because they swap for the meta. This game isn't that strict to choices.

Then I'd rather choose a class that is actually competitive which I can become better on - ranged dps or whatever - and play that. Meta is part of the game for some players. BRD and DNC are wanted in PF. MCH are being frowned upon in high-level content - I've had several instances of this myself.

Let me rephrase what you said. I rather have a game where all classes can be somewhat competitive and bring damage to the group, with some differences. If you look at logs, the reality seems far from that. Not asking for an OP class - but let us at least be as good as our ranged peers.

[CKNovel]

If you enjoy the gameplay of a class, just play it and have fun. Why let numbers determine whether you're having fun playing or not?
Does having slightly higher numbers make the gameplay more fun?

Not that its wrong to complain or give feedback and want your class to get the same treatment as others. But wouldn't you be happier if you just stop worrying about the numbers and just play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability?

MCH has some gameplay issue, mine is the Queen that I complained way too much about. It's AI is inconsistent and the gameplay not fun. There's no gameplay behind the Queen, it's even more automated that FF XII or FF XIII.
Wildfire and Flamethrower needs a good rework imo.

But the topic is damage. I can't bring myself to enjoy a job when playing it is essentially griefing the team because I'm not playing a job that is straight up better.
Look, I've spent weeks to gear up my MCH expecting actually potent buff, I knew I'd be disappointed but that's a new low. I should've spent that time gearing another job.
I want to feel usefull to my team while enjoying my class.

Finally, enjoyment has nothing to do with balance. Regardless of how one enjoy the job, it doesn't excuse the lack of balance.

MCH is in the grave. The damage is too low, the ping problems are too bad, and there's no utility. The class is simply dead weight compared to other ranged classes.

When it's the Mathwizard that says it... Yeah it feels bad.

[D6Damager]

If you enjoy the gameplay of a class, just play it and have fun. Why let numbers determine whether you're having fun playing or not?
Does having slightly higher numbers make the gameplay more fun?

Not that its wrong to complain or give feedback and want your class to get the same treatment as others. But wouldn't you be happier if you just stop worrying about the numbers and just play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability?

It's the fear of not being wanted in groups because they would rather have any other job than yours.

[E-Zekiel]

If you enjoy the gameplay of a class, just play it and have fun. Why let numbers determine whether you're having fun playing or not?
Does having slightly higher numbers make the gameplay more fun?

Not that its wrong to complain or give feedback and want your class to get the same treatment as others. But wouldn't you be happier if you just stop worrying about the numbers and just play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability?

The gameplay did change. I'm not a big min-maxer and that aspect of the samurai changes are whatever to me. The bigger thing is the feel of the class is terrible now compared to what it was. Setting up a combo chain into a big bursty hit, and further amplifying it with one of the most badass sword flourishes in the game was SO MUCH FUN for me.

[ShimAoki]

If you enjoy the gameplay of a class, just play it and have fun. Why let numbers determine whether you're having fun playing or not?
Does having slightly higher numbers make the gameplay more fun?

Not that its wrong to complain or give feedback and want your class to get the same treatment as others. But wouldn't you be happier if you just stop worrying about the numbers and just play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability?

Because I play on a savage and ultimate level and having to play at 100% (not the best player, not the worst) just to keep up with my party and not feel like I'm wasting a party slot in competitive content when other roles would do the job way better, but I've invested 6 years into a job and deeply love its aethetic. I wish I could stop worrying about the numbers, but this issue has persisited for years and every rework you tell yourself "finally they have a direction, they'll fix it" only to be exactly where they reworked the job from thus making the rework redundant. My copium is immesserable. I've said it before but I also don't want other jobs getting butchered in a similar direction, because simplisity vs damage output is an issue the devs didn't think about when not giving us utility to compensate for how easy it is now, now don't get me wrong, current mch is fun to play, but it feels like a template that they didn't expand on, and instead told us that they made the job with 0 progressions in mind for future content, thus defeating that rewarding excitment of getting through the start of an expansion, to experience the new skills, hoping that they meaningfully expand upon the simplisity of the current version, only to get copy and pasted skills, which turn our identity more into a drill dumper than a machinist. Drill is a cool skill, or at least it was when it had the numbers to back it up, I understand the need for the stat squish but it felt like they removed the potency drill had, and distributed it between 3 drills rather than have them feel powerful. I love 2 reassembles but the issue with this skill is the same thing removing kaiten was, kaiten was a gauge spender, it rewarded you from using it in burst windows. Reassemble is more of a use on drill cooldown skill. Theres 0 complexity to enjoy in min maxing the job. I would personally love just a little more depth. Especially when they release RPR and RPR is you but better, you cannot convince me that RPR isn't just melee mch with utility from how it plays. Enshroud is a way more fun wildfire window. For me, RPR showed me that the systems in place could be expanded upon but just weren't.

[Chyro]

Cause its the only thing you can do right now, cause you can't make change or buffs suddenly happen. Maybe they will come in time, but until then you're just sabotaging your own enjoyment of the class by focusing on the numbers.

Are the dps-checks in the high-end content really so high that passing or failing depends on class choice? Or are there clears of each content including any of the classses? If it fails, was it really because you weren't playing a different class, or just cause some in the party weren't performing as well as they could (which would kinda be always the case, cause nobody is perfect and there's always room to improve).

What I'm trying to say is that in the foreseeable future, you can't change the devs views or the game. You can give feedback but only hope that it will be heard and brings change eventually. What you can do is change the way you view things, to not let numbers ruin your enjoyment of the class or the game. "Anything else we can do other than changing to another class?" is the question you asked and what I was responding to.

[gamerseb]

Cause its the only thing you can do right now, cause you can't make change or buffs suddenly happen. Maybe they will come in time, but until then you're just sabotaging your own enjoyment of the class by focusing on the numbers.

Are the dps-checks in the high-end content really so high that passing or failing depends on class choice? Or are there clears of each content including any of the classses? If it fails, was it really because you weren't playing a different class, or just cause some in the party weren't performing as well as they could (which would kinda be always the case, cause nobody is perfect and there's always room to improve).

What I'm trying to say is that in the foreseeable future, you can't change the devs views or the game. You can give feedback but only hope that it will be heard and brings change eventually. What you can do is change the way you view things, to not let numbers ruin your enjoyment of the class or the game. "Anything else we can do other than changing to another class?" is the question you asked and what I was responding to.

I understand what you mean.

The answer then is "We cannot change the devs' views. So let's either forget about the numbers or change our class".

I agree. It's just sad.