Machinist class is dead

[Cyd3l]

That would hold if brd and dnc didn't bring much more utility along with higher DPS. Given that MCH is a fairly selfish dps, it should outdps the other two physical ranged jobs. And I am not sure the changes actually closes that dmg gap in any significant way.

It does out dps the other two physical ranged jobs, by a lot actually. If you're referring to RDPS and not DPS then yes it falls behind there. But if you think MCH should do more personal dmg than Bard and Dancer and also do more RDPS than Bard and Dancer, what exactly would be the point of Bard and Dancer even existing. MCH has issues for sure, the entire Phys Ranged role has issues. Simply making it outperform Bard and Dancer in everything isn't a solution.

There's a big issue with people on this forum demanding changes looking at FFLOGS (sorted by RDPS) and assuming thats personal DPS. MCH literally does around 15% more dmg than both Dancer and Bard in straight up DPS comparison.

[HyoMinPark]

It does out dps the other two physical ranged jobs, by a lot actually. If you're referring to RDPS and not DPS then yes it falls behind there. But if you think MCH should do more personal dmg than Bard and Dancer and also do more RDPS than Bard and Dancer, what exactly would be the point of Bard and Dancer even existing. MCH has issues for sure, the entire Phys Ranged role has issues. Simply making it outperform Bard and Dancer in everything isn't a solution.

There's a big issue with people on this forum demanding changes looking at FFLOGS (sorted by RDPS) and assuming thats personal DPS. MCH literally does around 15% more dmg than both Dancer and Bard in straight up DPS comparison.

You have to kind of look at both: because BRD and DNC are “support” physical ranged that buff the group, you consider rDPS for them. MCH is “selfish”, so you want to consider aDPS for them since it doesn’t bring any buffs to the group to get rDPS gains from. MCH obviously does more aDPS than BRD and DNC, but aDPS is not the metric that matters for them. It’s rDPS, so you look at that.
If we looked strictly at aDPS, a job like DNC would have been in the grave all last expansion—yet it dominated the role.

Currently, I’m looking at 95th percentiles for the Savage fights, and MCH’s aDPS does not outweigh the rDPS of BRD and DNC in P1S, P2S, P3S, or P4S phase 2. P4S door boss is the only fight at that percentile where MCH’s aDPS is close to the rDPS of BRD and DNC (around ~8,300 to 8,400)—and it’s still technically a bit lower.

I’m not sure how much the potency changes will give it, but it doesn’t really change the fact that MCH doesn’t bring anything to the table that BRD and DNC don’t already. The only thing it has is its damage, and BRD/DNC buff the party more than MCH gives damage.

[ForteNightshade]

It does out dps the other two physical ranged jobs, by a lot actually. If you're referring to RDPS and not DPS then yes it falls behind there. But if you think MCH should do more personal dmg than Bard and Dancer and also do more RDPS than Bard and Dancer, what exactly would be the point of Bard and Dancer even existing. MCH has issues for sure, the entire Phys Ranged role has issues. Simply making it outperform Bard and Dancer in everything isn't a solution.

There's a big issue with people on this forum demanding changes looking at FFLOGS (sorted by RDPS) and assuming thats personal DPS. MCH literally does around 15% more dmg than both Dancer and Bard in straight up DPS comparison.

I'm going to quote myself from another post on this precise subject. Although, it's referring to Samurai, the same argument applies to Machinist in this scenario.

Samurai is a selfish job. rDPS is largely irrelevant to use as a solo metric for it. You need to look at aDPS, rDPS and how much damage it does under raid buffs. The latter is especially important. This video explains it far better but he highlights the difference between Warrior and Dark Knight and why the latter is overwhelmingly better. Under raid buffs, Dark Knight contributes nearly 1,200 rDPS under buffs whereas Warrior only contributes 500. Hence the gap between them is far higher than the 350 difference the rDPS tab suggestions. Their respective aDPS shows a staggering 700 difference.

All this aside, if you look at the speed meta, Samurai completely dominates with a whooping 36.4% amongst Melee in P1S.

When factoring in everything above, Samurai is, indeed, the strongest DPS since 6.08. Black Mage is competitive with it as are Ninja and Dragoon.

For specifics, allow me to highlight these three logs from top ranked Prange players to better illustrate the point.

Dancer gave 1,930 DPS while taking 436 for a net gain of 1,494 DPS
Bard gave 1,806 DPS while taking 573 for a net gain of 1,233 DPS
Machinist gave 0 DPS while taking 447 for a net gain of 447 DPS

As you can see, Dancer and Bard give an astronomical amount more overall DPS to the party due to buffing other jobs. Samurai, Black Mage and Dark Knight are benefit immensely from both jobs. Contrast that with Machinist that brings nothing and offers nothing. It's objectively weaker in every facet, hence why it's been entirely nonexistent in the speed meta this entire tier. Even a month in no one played it at that level. Not even 1%. Literally no one. White Mage, Paladin and Warrior all had more of a presence despite them being anti-speed. That's how bad Machinist is right now. This "buff" doesn't even nudge the needle.

[HyoMinPark]

As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

This is such a non-answer. MCH needs something to compete with the other two physical ranged DPS. DNC and BRD and have been wiping the floor with it since ShB. MCH itself has been in BRD’s shadow since SB, though it at least had a presence. It can’t even compete within its own role, and that is a huge problem. It simply offers nothing that BRD and DNC don’t already do. The selfish design of it doesn’t make it competitive with the two buff physical ranged because MCH’s personal damage is not enough to offset the rDPS gains of the other two.

[strangethings]

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

Or swap to BRD/DNC, who happen to have more mobility than MCH.

[Rolder50]

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

Even with the SMN changes, it still looks like SMN will be behind RDM in Damage and Utility, which raises the question of what do they even bring to the table?

[Grimoire-M]

Even with the SMN changes, it still looks like SMN will be behind RDM in Damage and Utility, which raises the question of what do they even bring to the table?

According to that one guy who keeps defending Endwalker's rework (avere or whatever), Playstation gameplay.

[darkdyllon]

SAMs are being drama queens. And SMN got a systematic change, so swift isn't necessary for a DPS increase. You can still use it that way for mobility but it won't be mandatory. They did increase the damage on it, too.
As for MCH, mobility simply comes at the cost of damage. You want more damage? Either be melee or get some fat cast times. It's simply how this game is designed.

this take is so bad.
MCH is an PURE DPS an SELFISH DPS, by design they should be outshining other jobs in DPS, which MCH isn't doing btw.
BRD has songs that passively buff everyone around them, DNC has their dances and ofcourse dance partner, what does MCH have? their AOE mitigation, which BRD and DNC also have, yet MCH does less damage than both it's competitors in the same role?
why is BLM always near SAM? they're opposite on the spectrum, 1 is melee 1 is an caster, both are selfish DPS.
that's why it was stupid when SMN in SHB was top DPS, it brought more to the team than DPS, yet was also top DPS? same in EW, where BLM and SAM were below MNK and RPR, both MNK and RPR add more to the team than just DPS, so what justifies SAM and BLM?

SAM being drama queens is because the whole identity and the feel of the job was stripped, imagine BLM being able to just move freely, not really BLM anymore right?
SMN became as braindead as they possibly could get away with, instead of managing DoTs they just press 1 context sensitive button to keep casting, have 5 seconds to spare to cast twice, then just full insta casts again, it's not an option that would lead to an DPS loss (meaning you needed to know the fight and your job) now it's just an straight up insta cast fest.

[Chyro]

If you enjoy the gameplay of a class, just play it and have fun. Why let numbers determine whether you're having fun playing or not?
Does having slightly higher numbers make the gameplay more fun?

Not that its wrong to complain or give feedback and want your class to get the same treatment as others. But wouldn't you be happier if you just stop worrying about the numbers and just play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability?

[gamerseb]

If you enjoy the gameplay of a class, just play it and have fun. Why let numbers determine whether you're having fun playing or not?
Does having slightly higher numbers make the gameplay more fun?

Not that its wrong to complain or give feedback and want your class to get the same treatment as others. But wouldn't you be happier if you just stop worrying about the numbers and just play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability?

Sadly, it does.

When you do high-end content and fail, but would have succeeded if you had a different job - any job at all - playing your own class loses meaning. It just means everything else is 5 times harder for you than the rest, and your damage is lower than everyone else.

Stop saying that it's not a problem. Cause for players who do high-end content, it sure is. And for players who use party finder, it sure is, too.

Why do you think devs adjust numbers if they're "not important", if I should just "stop worrying about the numbers" and "play the class you enjoy to the best of your ability"?