If you continue to dumb down the game, you will lose half your player base

[Rhysati]

WoW's problems were content and a myriad of other things, not "simplification." Ya'll also severely overestimate the outlook of the game based on the forums which is a minority of the minority of the playerbase.

For me, the exact reason I quit playing WoW is the simplification and homogenization of classes. I play on private servers now in old expansions where my class actually has an identity and things they bring to the table that other classes do not. I also play other older MMORPGs like City of Heroes and Everquest p1999 for that exact same reason.

If I wasn't an active roleplayer here I wouldn't play FFXIV any longer for the exact same reason. Every class feels the same so it really doesn't matter which one I play anymore.

[Sqwall]

For me, the exact reason I quit playing WoW is the simplification and homogenization of classes. I play on private servers now in old expansions where my class actually has an identity and things they bring to the table that other classes do not. I also play other older MMORPGs like City of Heroes and Everquest p1999 for that exact same reason.

If I wasn't an active roleplayer here I wouldn't play FFXIV any longer for the exact same reason. Every class feels the same so it really doesn't matter which one I play anymore.

So you play at a time when it was.....simpler? I'm confused as to why you go back to old expansions where you didn't have as much skills. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy the classics just as much as anyone else, but the simple fact that the developers of FFXIV understand that the game feels a tad....complicated when it comes to controller players places the blame on those people. I shouldn't have to start using a M/K because the game demands it, which it doesn't, the meta community does i.e. ultimate, savage. The fact that I can play this game from my couch and still clear savage content is a testament to design of this game. Again don't get me wrong there are some things that I detest to savage, enrage comes to mind and I think enrage timers are incredibly lackluster to mechanics, but hey that's me.

Reducing button bloat IS NOT a red flag of simplifying a game. It's removing frustration of some jobs that just really have WAY to many buttons. I actually have to remove ALL my AOE buttons when I raid just so I can have everything on my main X-hotbar with out using to much switching or fumbling around.

Those that play on M/K as an Astro should BOW to those Astro's that play on controller. ESPECISALLY in P4S during Pinax....

The current method of adding buttons to jobs should be forgotten and replaced with TRAITS upgrading skills. It's simpler and you can still create new and interesting dynamics. Dragoon comes to mind with all the changes made for 60-80 you get maybe 1 actual ability/skill. Everything else is traited...which still changes how the job plays. Atonement on Paladin also comes to mind....trait that crap and change Royal Authority to atonement on completion. Currently Atonement is on the GCD anyway so it only makes sense.

[IdowhatIwant]

So you play at a time when it was.....simpler? I'm confused as to why you go back to old expansions where you didn't have as much skills. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy the classics just as much as anyone else, but the simple fact that the developers of FFXIV understand that the game feels a tad....complicated when it comes to controller players places the blame on those people. I shouldn't have to start using a M/K because the game demands it, which it doesn't, the meta community does i.e. ultimate, savage. The fact that I can play this game from my couch and still clear savage content is a testament to design of this game. Again don't get me wrong there are some things that I detest to savage, enrage comes to mind and I think enrage timers are incredibly lackluster to mechanics, but hey that's me.

Reducing button bloat IS NOT a red flag of simplifying a game. It's removing frustration of some jobs that just really have WAY to many buttons. I actually have to remove ALL my AOE buttons when I raid just so I can have everything on my main X-hotbar with out using to much switching or fumbling around.

Those that play on M/K as an Astro should BOW to those Astro's that play on controller. ESPECISALLY in P4S during Pinax....

The current method of adding buttons to jobs should be forgotten and replaced with TRAITS upgrading skills. It's simpler and you can still create new and interesting dynamics. Dragoon comes to mind with all the changes made for 60-80 you get maybe 1 actual ability/skill. Everything else is traited...which still changes how the job plays. Atonement on Paladin also comes to mind....trait that crap and change Royal Authority to atonement on completion. Currently Atonement is on the GCD anyway so it only makes sense.

It's not really the button bloat that people are mad about them addressing. It is the buttons that are being removed. Again I am not understanding where players are not understanding that part. No one wants more buttons, but no one wants iconic skills removed either.

Man I can't wait for PS support to end again.

[Sqwall]

It's not really the button bloat that people are mad about them addressing. It is the buttons that are being removed. Again I am not understanding where players are not understanding that part. No one wants more buttons, but no one wants iconic skills removed either.

Man I can't wait for PS support to end again.

If the developers had the foresight to know where the game would be mechanically from ARR to now....I don't think they would have added more buttons. They would have traited EVERYTHING, then nobody would be crying at the moon with the removal of SAM buttons if they never added them in the first place. Hind sight is always 20/20.

I didn't care when they removed positionals from MNK for the sake of smoother gameplay. Anybody remember the REQUIRED positionals of Dragoon?

Four out of the 8 players in my static play on PS5 and I don't hear them whining about...."it's to hard...ugh" or "man I wish this game was more homogenized so it was easier to play".

It's actually the opposite when you think about it. It's harder to play on controller then it is on keyboard. With the vast amount of control you have on M/K they game is actually easier as I have almost literally everything at the ready on my main hotbars. Just a simple click of any skill.

With controller you really have to get clever with your skills and abilities and how you group them. If you place to many GCD abilities on your left side (D-Pad) it really hinders your movement with the left stick. Muscle memory plays a big part, and the game really becomes like a fighting game in style of how you press your buttons. i.e. Combo 1 = R2, Triangle, Circle, X or Gap Closer = R2+L2, Up. Again your muscle memory starts to take over when you place skills/abilities.

I honestly don't understand how people would rather play on M/K. Sometimes all I hear in the discord channel is keyboard clicks of them just constantly pushing a button 30 times every 2 seconds for an entire 10 min fight. I get why they do it...but I don't understand the "gotta hit this button 90 times....ok now that button....ok now that button." it's kind of silly when you think about it. I suppose as a controller player I have trained myself to hit the button a couple times just before the GCD comes off. I'll ready have my trigger combo ready for the next GCD or fight mechanic. When I play on keyboard it just feels less responsive to me for some reason...like having to shift or Ctrl my way through combos feels clunky to me.

[Insertusernamehere]

So you play at a time when it was.....simpler? I'm confused as to why you go back to old expansions where you didn't have as much skills. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy the classics just as much as anyone else, but the simple fact that the developers of FFXIV understand that the game feels a tad....complicated when it comes to controller players places the blame on those people. I shouldn't have to start using a M/K because the game demands it, which it doesn't, the meta community does i.e. ultimate, savage. The fact that I can play this game from my couch and still clear savage content is a testament to design of this game. Again don't get me wrong there are some things that I detest to savage, enrage comes to mind and I think enrage timers are incredibly lackluster to mechanics, but hey that's me.

Reducing button bloat IS NOT a red flag of simplifying a game. It's removing frustration of some jobs that just really have WAY to many buttons. I actually have to remove ALL my AOE buttons when I raid just so I can have everything on my main X-hotbar with out using to much switching or fumbling around.

Those that play on M/K as an Astro should BOW to those Astro's that play on controller. ESPECISALLY in P4S during Pinax....

The current method of adding buttons to jobs should be forgotten and replaced with TRAITS upgrading skills. It's simpler and you can still create new and interesting dynamics. Dragoon comes to mind with all the changes made for 60-80 you get maybe 1 actual ability/skill. Everything else is traited...which still changes how the job plays. Atonement on Paladin also comes to mind....trait that crap and change Royal Authority to atonement on completion. Currently Atonement is on the GCD anyway so it only makes sense.

I think s/he is referring copy / paste jobs.

If you level 1 healer you don't have to try others because all of them same with different animation (excluding AST for unique card system.. but overall same thing 1 dot 1 dps skill with excessive healing skills, card system bonus).

DPS & tank jobs currently feels different but eventually SE will "fix" it

[KageTokage]

I honestly don't think the game's current direction is going to be sustainable in the long term either between the overly predictable and mostly short-lived content cycle and constant efforts to dumb down jobs for the sake of the bottom line who don't even need to be performing anywhere close to optimal for the content they choose to actually engage with.

[Iedarus]

Wow, the people on the healer forum were right. The second a DPS job gets its kit pruned, a whole uproar happens in General Discussion. Not trying to create a divide, but it is funny how this works.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Wow, the people on the healer forum were right. The second a DPS job gets its kit pruned, a whole uproar happens in General Discussion. Not trying to create a divide, but it is funny how this works.

Seasoned healer mains when they see people crying about NIN/SAM upcoming adjustment:

Only BLMs gets to be awesome. Everything else must not have a gap between skill floor and skill ceiling! /s

[EnigmaticDodo]

What I find to be really interesting about this whole homogenization aspect of the game is that they CLEARLY are able to give classes identity. Check out the PvP changes on the classes!

I understand accessibility, but there is also supposed to be a progression in difficulty or complexity as things go on, no? To build upon previous concepts learned? I'm not a game designer, but I think that's a core staple. Here, though, we seem to keep things at a basic level.

I forget who suggested this, but I'll parrot it; I wish there was a mode where things are consolidated and easier for those who want to have that sort of experience; and then have the same content available for people who prefer a little more going on. Sort of like: Solo - Duty Finder, or maybe even some radical change akin to choosing a style in fighting games (Simple Input Method vs Advanced, etc.). Perhaps the Trust System can be used to make this sort of thing happen and we slowly bring back some difficulty.

I don't know where I'm going with this!

Feel free to pick apart my takes!

[Larirawiel]

What I find to be really interesting about this whole homogenization aspect of the game is that they CLEARLY are able to give classes identity. Check out the PvP changes on the classes!

The problem is, "class identity" and high difficulty in small group content do not fit really good. Because if the classes are too different then it is very likely that one class handles some situations way better than the other. Imagine, you have a fight with a great number of adds. Then you have a class with good AoE and a class without AoE. Which class would you choose for this content?

And then it comes, that the players create a meta for this specific content. If you do not fit that meta then they kick you out of their group. And yes, it happened already in other games like WoW. You are an elemental shaman and you want to do heroic Shattered Halls or heroic Magister's Terasse? Become a healer or GTFO. Because classes with crowd control made those instances way easier and an elemental shaman did not have very good CC. The perfect meta was 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 mages.



Cheers