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  1. #41
    Player
    Denji's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    894
    Character
    Daddy Milkers
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 86
    Not defending them but their changes are still more informative than Nintendo.
    At this point my switch is so stable it's ready to start a family.
    (1)

  2. #42
    Player Midareyukki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Bozja
    Posts
    2,580
    Character
    Harun Asubra
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Whether they do or don't read feedback is something I can't exactly comment on. Sometimes it really does look like they read it, sometimes it just looks like they elected to ignore it.

    But about the topic of wanting the devs to provide data on the changes made. We did have them showing what they would do to the combat classes on Live Letters, but after some point in Stormblood, they just stopped doing that. The reason they gave us was because people were freaking out (paraphrasing btw) over the changes, making all sorts of assumptions and claiming it would break the class. And that would put pressure on the devs who got criticised before the changes were even implemented. From then on, the changelist would only ever be posted on the de-facto final Patch Notes as the patch dropped, and they've been vague about changes to the classes. Just "we're thinking of implementing this\changing that. You'll have to wait and find out how".

    So right off the bat, this isn't a team that seems keen on presenting data. They were vague enough beforehand, but now player feedback usually being negative without getting the chance to play through their vision and making constructive feedback caused a further divide. And this is on the combat system alone. Sometimes they do have the department come in and explain their reasoning at the end of the Live Letter, but mostly for new types of content like PVP, housing or minigames.

    And even if they did start doing it, the answers may not be satisfactory. A lot of people stuck for three years with Yoshida's answer that the way Hrothgar and Viera models were designed made implementing hairs too difficult. Yet on the very day he said it, I was already seeing people working with 3D models for videogames explain why it's not hard at all, with modders backing it up by saying they were already in the works of finishing mods to make it happen and that the models made it easier than it would be for some races. And right now that information is travelling around, with people dissecting exactly how these races are built, and modders explaining their process and showing their work. So all it takes is Yoshida being informed that "something cannot be done because of XYZ reasons", people will interject with "That's wrong".

    And what I just said is only one of the cases that has led to people lately asking Square's departments to come forward and explain their method and reasoning. While it would be appreciated by fans for sure, Square already has some bad faith in giving out information like this. And they could just come in, say the exact same thing as before, be dismissive, be vague or potentially even lie and leave the room with no further comment. Which. in turn, would only cause further and further demand from players, as well as comments saying Square either didn't care or that people are incompetent all over again.

    So as much as people may want it, I don't think we'll ever truly get it.
    (2)

  3. #43
    Player
    Quor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    663
    Character
    Alexya Ultor
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    One indisputable fact is that there is a...blind spot...to put it charitably, when it comes to non-JP concerns (and even likely to some JP concerns). The biggest offender of this was the rampant RMT spam that existed up through early HW. Anyone who played in ARR on an NA or EU server had to deal with it. We all had that blacklist macro that just blocked the last person to /tell you, and we all had to periodically, maybe once a week or so, go into our blacklist to clean out all the now-deleted names of all the spammers we had recently added, to make room for the new batch no doubt coming down the pipe.

    Major stinks were made about this, right from 2.0 release straight up until Yoshi P. himself logged onto his character on an NA server during E3 and immediately got spammed with an RMT advertisement in /tell, before he had even finished loading in no less. And wouldn't you know it, the issue was fixed in the next patch.

    To be clear, I don't blame Yoshida-san for this. I do think there is a bit of "groupthink" mentality going on though, particularly in regards to the role known as the "mindguard." Aka someone(s) who purposefully withholds information that they believe a superior won't like, or will somehow reflect badly on the "mission." I highly suspect that a good deal of the disconnect that appears comes from this sort of behavior. After all, Yoshi P. can't be expected to peruse every single complaint thread. He's obviously got people setup to do that for the development team, and this creates a few different filtering layers that information has to percolate through before it reaches someone who can make a meaningful decision.

    I don't say this to forgive or make excuses. While Yoshida-san, and by extension his team, have accrued a great deal of good will over the years, it's something that can be easily lost, particularly in light of a number of job-design decisions that have been made in recent years and months. Honest, transparent communication is the best way to preserve that good will.
    (14)
    Quote Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure View Post
    I still wouldn't do it [double weave oGCD's on GNB] because there is a good chance to mess up the rotation and it can easily cause a wipe because of server ticks.

  4. #44
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,093
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    I do feel like the teams are curating information and feedback they don't think is important enough to make known to the higher-ups when there's historically been several cases of changes not being made until questions are targeted directly at the devs via Q&A sessions or interviews.
    (15)

  5. #45
    Player
    MellowMink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    640
    Character
    Mello Minkus
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    I want technical data on why Miqo’te can have their ears appear through Snow’s hat but Hrothgar can’t.
    (6)
    Last edited by MellowMink; 04-14-2022 at 01:40 AM. Reason: Fixed a minor typo

  6. #46
    Player
    Moonsprite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Evie Serenity
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Twitter and social media is where most of their feedback comes from. Even people on the English forums here have trouble sifting through these threads. Everyone starts their own threads on the same topics over and over. The same people have complaints about every aspect of the game. It’s probably difficult to differentiate between the trolls and people with legitimate complaints and concerns. It’s basically the cry wolf syndrome. Cohesive threads with a main theme, like the male viera thread, are better than several threads saying similar things but can’t agree on a main concern or what they want done about it.
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player
    Krotoan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,591
    Character
    Krotoan Argaviel
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    What do you think the players will do with that information that's useful?
    (0)
    WHERE IS THIS KETTLE EVERYONE KEEPS INTRODUCING ME TO?

  8. #48
    Player
    Zanarkand-Ronso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    4,168
    Character
    Johanna Yevon
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Krotoan View Post
    What do you think the players will do with that information that's useful?
    Create more threads about the Doom and Gloom on FFXIV
    "Sometimes" is does feel like people just Need a Target & Excuse to complain about something
    (0)

  9. #49
    Player
    Ayer2015's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,451
    Character
    Ayer Austen
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Honestly, I think the devs vision for the game differs from what the forums want in some cases. While I don't agree which Yoshi's stance on healer design for example, what more do people expect him to say if changing course is not on the table.
    (1)

  10. #50
    Player
    Nethereal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    842
    Character
    Deviously Enchanted
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Krotoan View Post
    What do you think the players will do with that information that's useful?
    Quit the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayer2015 View Post
    Honestly, I think the devs vision for the game differs from what the forums want in some cases. While I don't agree which Yoshi's stance on healer design for example, what more do people expect him to say if changing course is not on the table.
    Tell me up front so I'm not wasting my time hoping for a better tomorrow.
    (11)

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone
    Just because other players play the game. Does not mean you got to be mindful, or care
    Quote Originally Posted by Someone 2
    The problem ISN'T healers rotation is busted or boring...

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