SAM changes - I don’t mind it

[Soge01]

People act like this is new.

They completely changed warrior within a patch or 2 of the game launching because "people didn't understand how to play it"

What did they do? Made it more like PLD.

People act like things getting nerfed is new. Coil was nerfed every new tier.


This isn't new. This has been the games design the entire time.

Who the fack did not understand how to play Warrior!? Pardon my language, but you gotta be dam near brain dead to think Warrior's a difficult job class to understand! Jesus christ, lol!

[Absurdity]

Who the fack did not understand how to play Warrior!? Pardon my language, but you gotta be dam near brain dead to think Warrior's a difficult job class to understand! Jesus christ, lol!

Warrior in 4.0 was by far the most difficult tank to understand and play effectively. But they went from "actually difficult" to "pants on head" within 2 patches and doubled down on it with every expansion.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Who the fack did not understand how to play Warrior!? Pardon my language, but you gotta be dam near brain dead to think Warrior's a difficult job class to understand! Jesus christ, lol!

I mean, you probably weren't here in 2.0 then.


And it is relavent. People keep acting like this is new. It's not. They've simplified and made changes to every job ever since the game came out.


Remember when gierskogul took 10 seconds off blood of the dragon? Man that was fun and engaging...

[IdowhatIwant]

I mean, you probably weren't here in 2.0 then.


And it is relavent. People keep acting like this is new. It's not. They've simplified and made changes to every job ever since the game came out.


Remember when gierskogul took 10 seconds off blood of the dragon? Man that was fun and engaging...

So, I wasn't here in 2.0. But that patch notes are still there. And yeah I did not see anything that you were talking about.

I do remember when gierskogul took 10 seconds off blood of the dragon and it was actually engaging. See at that time the point of blood of the dragon was not to maintain it but to keep it up until blood of the dragon cd reset. The game eventually turned to maintaining blood of the dragon much like enochian.

[Soge01]

I mean, you probably weren't here in 2.0 then.


And it is relavent. People keep acting like this is new. It's not. They've simplified and made changes to every job ever since the game came out.


Remember when gierskogul took 10 seconds off blood of the dragon? Man that was fun and engaging...

Oh, I was here back in 2.0! While I vaguely remember things, I do remember Warrior only had a slightly difficult learning curve. Well, at least for myself. Just needed to read the tool tip and do some practice to properly memorize which thing did what.

The thing I've always thought to myself is that the devs need to let the players learn how each job functions and go with the ones they feel that best suits them. Not everyone is going to be ridiculously good at this game, but them coddling the player base like they have for years will not help improve those players struggling with certain jobs or the overall game better. It'll only make them worse. Last year they added a freaking east and very easy mode to instances! That's the average level of your playerbase and you think making things simpler will solve your problems!? smh...

Meh, that wasn't really bad. No different than how BLM functions right now with its umbral and Astral management. If you don't like managing what makes a job class tick, there's always another job right around the corner that'd better suit you and the playstyle you desire. :/

[Enjuden]

People act like this is new.

They completely changed warrior within a patch or 2 of the game launching because "people didn't understand how to play it"

What did they do? Made it more like PLD.

People act like things getting nerfed is new. Coil was nerfed every new tier.


This isn't new. This has been the games design the entire time.

Hyperbole and utter nonsense when it comes to Warrior 'being more like Paladin', or even why it was done.

We learned everything we could about Warrior at the time and mathematically it was better to play MARAUDER as a DPS than Warrior tank itself because the damage loss was that awful when it came to the 2.0 job, and the class frankly sucked. Their aggro was nonexistent when it came to aoe, their TP cost was extremely high for no reason, Vengeance had NO damage mitigation so they were actively playing with a cooldown that didn't work half the time (Remember when their 20% only affected Physical damage? You sure didn't). Threat Generation from Defiance was not as good as Shield Oath, to the point they had to actively break combo to keep aggro. Healing was more of a burden on Warrior due to their hp being higher and needing more mp to spend on them at a time where both MP and TP were more critical to spend. They literally face tanked things with higher base defense and hoped it worked out in 2.0. L2P was the meme answer when it was clear the developers had no idea what the actual state of Warrior was at the time. They didn't "Make it more like PLD", they made the class not terrible to play, aka not actively trolling your raid by picking it when Paladin was doing both more damage and could mitigate, well, anything in Coil.

But go on, please continue talking like you know what you're talking about when you clearly have no clue on any job you don't actively play when five minutes of google would have made you not post something so ridiculously false.

As for OP, the short answer is that Kaiten is a good animation and goes into the fantasy of Samurai that has been ingrained since its release, with the class feel growing better for both expansions. It is the second least busy melee dps job, and Reaper is frankly a terrifying class because it shows how future job changes will be. I have never played a slower class in XIV and I personally want no job to even come close to Reaper and it's low management. There are other skills to remove that would be more effective than randomly warping how a class plays for the sake of simplicity.

[Absurdity]

snip

I assume they meant the changes to warrior from 4.0 to 4.2...or atleast I would hope so.

[Enjuden]

I assume they meant the changes to warrior from 4.0 to 4.2...or atleast I would hope so.

I assumed that too, until "They completely changed warrior within a patch or 2 of the game launching" was made in the post.

I don't post like that unless I am absolutely sure the context is relevant.

[Liam_Harper]

Why are certain portion of players opposed to it?

Personally I don’t see it killing its job identity as SAM already has enough abilities as it is.

Basically, it's not about making the job too simple, it's more that it's a bad change that shows the developers don't understand how the job works. This last part is important, because many jobs have felt the same (in particular healers), and changes like this sort of prove it's true and indicate we're heading in a bad direction where jobs are being reworked by unqualified members of the dev team.

Kaiten gives the Kenki gauge purpose. Without it, the gauge is basically the Shinten gauge and Shinten is something you spam mindlessly while it's active. Meanwhile Shoha/Shoha II and Senai/Guren are definitely button bloat without a reason and could be pruned to a single ability with fall-off aoe damage.

Guaranteed crits are problematic because every class is adjusted to a 2 minute burst window now and since raid buffs stack multiplicatively, these burst windows are extremely important for dps. SAMs hardest hitting abilities no longer benefit from Crit Rate buffs such as Chain Stratagem, Devilment or Litany. They don't actually seem to be aware of that.

So while to the untrained eye, it seems like it's not a big deal (and it's good you brought up the thread to ask about it), anyone who understands the class indepth can see these changes are bad. The fact that a multi-billion dollar company in one of the most popular MMO's in the world is using unqualified testers in to make bad class changes is a concern.

[ryouma17]

i like the new changes, why should i have to press a button everyone i wanna unleash my 3 seal ability just so i can make it a bit stronger when the ability can just be stronger on its own, as a controller user iam already forced to leave off some abilities from my bars so any bloat reduction is a good thing, i dont wanna have to swap between 3+ hotbars just to do a rotation this is not my idea of fun