Thread: Patch 6.1 Notes

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yet again I see this take. I get it, there's people skilled enough to know how to managed everyone's HP making the job very trivial, but 30 seconds of straight dps with no healing in between? like please elaborate on the situations where thats even possible. It sure aint during mobs pulls where wall to wall requires pumping out them heals to that tank unless they're a warrior. I can maybe see this during boss fights or trials where you have more down time to dps and the fact that you have a co-healer alleviates much of the responsibility.

Basically what Im getting at is that Ive been running a bunch of group content. A lot of it while I was leveling up my healing jobs and no where was I so brain-dead enough where I didnt wind up using my toolkit and just spamming my one button. This is the take that completely baffles me because I just dont see it. I can only believe this for like Savage raids as Ive ran with my static who definitely proves the whole less heal more dps statement but I still feel like this is not something that happens consistently if were just generalizing.

Yes, even if it's a PLD, a GNB, or a DRK. I've done this for all tanks as a Sage, SCH, and AST and in wall to wall pulls. (WHM is suffering in this expansion, but you can pretty much do the same with a a couple more GCD heals since their gimmick is about GCD healing). You can pretty much talk to any healer main in the healer forums. The key point is to take advantage of your cooldowns and weave them in between without immediately panicking because damage is highly scripted. It's the same thing as cycling your healing abilities like a tank does, except you have ridiculously more abilities than a tank for the cases where a player 'may' make a mistake. If it's on a WAR, it just means I press nothing except maybe Physis II and Kerachole (and that's overkill with their equilibrium healing a ton when their Bloodwhetting is down). If it's a PLD, GNB, or DRK, it means I just add Haima in addition to Krasis, Physis II, and Kerachole. If they're extremely bad, then I use my remaining toolkit (Holos, Panhaima, Soteria) in addition to my addersgall. And this is where I can have an entire fight without a GCD spent on healing. That's basically 100% DPS uptime. Players have to mess up considerably for me to even consider dipping into my GCD healing because of how overtuned healing is when you take into account of tank mitigation & healing in general.

I had more of a struggle in Aurum Vale because of the ILVL and limited healing skills than any dungeons above ARR because we have so much access to healing abilities as a result of all the expansions only giving us healing tools and nothing else but healing tools.

Originally Posted by Ransu

Healers in every MMO are limited in their dps kits. FFXIV isn't unique in that nature and its intentional because you can't have a class that's focus is healing while also having a strong offensive kit. FFXIV may be a bit more extreme than most, but in general its normal for healer classes in MMO's to only have 3 or 4 attacks and maybe a dot.

So ya, I don't really have any sympathy for people playing healers and complaining about not having more damaging skills. You're a healer, your job is to heal.

edit because this forum has an idiotic daily post limit:



I don't agree with tanks having a stupid amount of self healing either. They should have strong damage mitigation to deal with cleaves\tank busters\big pulls and what not and yes I also agree that there should be more outgoing damage in certain content. I'm sorry that you think the argument is so one dimensional and your only retort is to call people "simps."

I have never played a healer in ANY MMO ever that spammed a single DPS skill more than 100 times in a dungeon, representing at least 70% of the skills used.

i have never played a healer in ANY MMO , even in a pure healing spec, where i was limited to only 2 DPS skills or three DPS skills- I didn't have many in that spec , but i would have a couple more, and with classes that had almost no self-heals.

I'm not asking for sympathy from you, it really doesn't sound like you know anything about healing ,based upon my experience it doesn't fit any game I have played within the past twenty years.

Originally Posted by Ransu

So ya, I don't really have any sympathy for people playing healers and complaining about not having more damaging skills. You're a healer, your job is to heal.

What if we're so good at our job that we've spent only 10% of the fight to keep our party alive and healthy and have the other 90% as downtime. You're saying it's good that we're punished for playing well and efficiently, by only having one button to press? Why should a role feel worse to play the better you play it?

Originally Posted by Ransu

Healers in every MMO are limited in their dps kits. FFXIV isn't unique in that nature and its intentional because you can't have a class that's focus is healing while also having a strong offensive kit.

Ah yes, this is where we decide to forget that SCH was literally SMN with a healing kit so we can tell healer mains how they are supposed to do their job.

Originally Posted by Ransu

Healers in every MMO are limited in their dps kits. FFXIV isn't unique in that nature and its intentional because you can't have a class that's focus is healing while also having a strong offensive kit. FFXIV may be a bit more extreme than most, but in general its normal for healer classes in MMO's to only have 3 or 4 attacks and maybe a dot.

Frankly I don't care if you don't have "sympathy for healers," because I don't particularly believe that you have a real understanding of what you yourself are saying, since not even you can bring yourself to say that things are perfect. If they're in an "extreme" place, then criticism is warranted, and adjustments are most likely necessary. Particularly, if we are going to be making a single-player game out of this MMO, then certain designs should be addressed and updated, even if it's going to be only for solo-play.

We're (generally) not even asking for healers (and tanks, too, by the way) to be provided a strong DPS kit, or to be provided with more power, even if that would make them more in-line with the design direction of the game. We're wanting for the development team to ease up on the limitations, however, because we have too much healing and not enough of anything else, and being given more healing on top of the already excessive amount of we already have is too much in the wrong direction for the way the rest of the game is going. We're asking for more substance, more to do in a general sense, DPS being the simplest, because, right now, we're not able to do much more besides DPS with a side order of healing, and healing, by your own admission, is what we're meant to be doing. And since we can't make the healing the main dish, because Yoshi-P is afraid of scaring off the kids, we need something else to provide us with more excitement other than the random casual playerbase's moth-like tendency for flailing bodily into the flashy, colorful flames and searing bright lights, all of which generally get handled by only using one or two of the 10+ "sparkle buttons" we have. You might not particularly like it, but we're healers, not your mother or baby-sitter, and we're certainly not being paid enough to be either, so we need game to actually play besides sitting there and waiting for you to make a fucky-wucky and drag you out of the forever-box.

Which, guess what: if you don't happen to do that, then we were there for nothing.

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Basically what Im getting at is that Ive been running a bunch of group content. A lot of it while I was leveling up my healing jobs and no where was I so brain-dead enough where I didnt wind up using my toolkit and just spamming my one button. This is the take that completely baffles me because I just dont see it. I can only believe this for like Savage raids as Ive ran with my static who definitely proves the whole less heal more dps statement but I still feel like this is not something that happens consistently if were just generalizing.

Look, you're not alone. I'm not the bestest-most-wonderful healer either, who has time-tables memorized, confidence in my pug parties (and I never will), and, frankly, I like pushing buttons. So I generally press more than the 2 buttons I talked about above when I go through the wall-to-wall pulls, partly because I believe it's necessary, and partly because I like the sparkles.
But even I know that, once I've pressed my 1 GCD regen and 2 favorite OGCD healing buttons, to stack even more regens (I'm an AST main), I don't usually need to press anything else for a big pull. Especially these days, when WAR and PLD players typically don't need my help to survive. On the off chance that I do, in fact, need to press another heal, it's going to likely be because the DPS is too low and the pull isn't ending as fast as usual (at which point, here comes another round of that GCD regen), or it's because the tank isn't using mitigation or isn't wearing at least near-level appropriate gear.
So, for the most part, I'm singling out and continually pressing a single DPS button, my 1 AOE attack, for those situations. And that's not good gameplay, and it will certainly be worse in a single-player experience, and it will certainly get worse as the ilevels increase over time. That's just how this game works right now, and it needs to be looked at because it's only getting worse.

I had the impression they're going to nerf Eureka relics in patch 6.1 because of previous statements. I feel disappointed not to see a single change in that regard....

Perhaps in upcoming patches? I think they know Eureka relics are an issue, but perhaps they just don't see the problem yet.
They do that, sometimes. A lot.

Originally Posted by Ransu

Then play a dps.

I tried that. They nerfed SMN into the ground and turned it into a braindead job when i tried it, and now they're taking away one of SAM's key abilities. I don't really like any of the other melees or casters, and the ranged DPS are too simple for me.