the normal content is too easy

[Deveryn]

If you want the content to be more challenging, try running it at min ilvl. It's funny how people will complain about the ease of the game, yet they will always make sure they and everyone around them run the absolute best gear. Join the sprouts on their level for a bit and play around in sets of gear that don't let you go wall to wall.

Aside from that, the game is actually not "easy". If it truly were and people were able to play half asleep, we wouldn't have megathreads about PF and roulettes, going over all the silliness that happens.

[Fourbestintoner]

Unfortunately the game's community has only become worse over the years, a consequence of dumbing down everything and making sure no one ever learn anything, there is no turning back.

[AnotherPerson]

If you want the content to be more challenging, try running it at min ilvl. It's funny how people will complain about the ease of the game, yet they will always make sure they and everyone around them run the absolute best gear. Join the sprouts on their level for a bit and play around in sets of gear that don't let you go wall to wall.

Aside from that, the game is actually not "easy". If it truly were and people were able to play half asleep, we wouldn't have megathreads about PF and roulettes, going over all the silliness that happens.

Ah yes, let me run Duty Finder content at Min ILVL for my daily roulettes.
What's this? I'm not allowed to queue for Duty Finder Roulette at Min ILVL? Blasphemy. "Let me just ask everyone to get worse gear just to make it more fun for me even if they're not bored." - Deveryn

As you can tell, that's naturally rude to ask someone to wear worse gear. You can't dictate nor ask people to do wear worse gear because that no longer respects people's time and fun for that level of content. The point of RPG is always progression, may it be for character gear or player skill - and in return, you get rewards for that content. Telling someone to not wear their best gear when they didn't sign up for min ILVL content simply for that reward doesn't work. It's also a self-imposed challenge, not a challenge that naturally exists like Extreme or Savage, so there's very little incentive in doing so outside of wanting the experience, as people are just doing more work for the same gain. Not only that, but even at min ILVL, normal mode content simply have repeat mechanics that players have all seen before. There's nothing difficult or new even if you are at min ILVL as long as you are aware of the mechanics. Auto attacks still barely chip the tank as they're not designed to be difficult for normal mode, even with bad gear.

There's no in-between for Normal and Extreme level content either for those who cannot afford the time to do Extreme or Savage and yet find Normal Mode to be too easy. That's the biggest issue for many players who want to feel more engaged too.

And Frankly, yes, I can literally play half asleep when I'm healing on normal content. If healers weren't able to play half asleep, we wouldn't have a 100+ page thread about lack of healing engagement because we'd be constantly pre-occupied with healing (but this goes for all modes of content, not just purely normal mode). I literally want people to go pull wall to wall or else I'll fall asleep from a lack of things to do other than pressing my single attack button over and over again until the instance is over, and I've said this even before I had better gear. This is what happens due to healers being so heavily focused on healing and everyone has some form of utility to help with damage mitigation, but the incoming damage is very sparse. No one needs healing in normal content beyond 1-2 buttons to fix their wounds for the next 30 seconds. The only ones who do are usually just the tank when it's a wall to wall pull, but even then -- if you have a WAR tank, you still don't need to GCD heal at all. That should tell you how lacking normal mode content is for healer engagement when you're still spending 90% of the fight pressing 1111111111 regardless of min ILVL or not.

[Jin-]

People here actually report other people pointing out that they refuse to put any effort in to learning anything.

GCBTW

[Ronduwil]

What ever happened to the final fantasy of old, where people had to actually practice and grind fights to clear them?

Think about that. What happened to the turn based strategy game where you could either:
1. Exploit your enemy's weaknesses and come up with overpowered combos to clear it at low level
2. Overwhelm it through brute force by grinding for levels first

I'll tell you what happened. That style of play became obsolete because in this day and age, the fights would be crowdsourced within hours, and the solutions to each boss would be widely available in a matter of days. Extreme and Savage content isn't mentally stimulating. It's a combination of rote memorization and practiced muscle memory. It's a matter of repeating the same actions over and over again until you can do them on autopilot. It's the exact opposite of mentally stimulating, and it doesn't have widespread appeal, which is why it's relegated to savage and extreme content. If SE wants to stop this game's unprecedented growth, they should follow your suggestion. Thankfully, I'm pretty sure they'll do the right thing and stay the current course.

There is a difference between being "casual friendly" and downright childs play. The game has become the latter.

It hasn't become that; it always was that. Video games in general are child's play. Rather than demanding that kiddie activities evolve into adult activities to suit your preferences, you're better off seeking out productive challenges at your school and/or workplace. When I read posts like these, I imagine someone standing on top of the jungle gym at the neighborhood playground protesting that it should be demolished to make way for a nightclub. If you don't like normal mode, then only do it on your way to unlocking savage. Please quit complaining that the rest of us are having our preferences met.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Think about that. What happened to the turn based strategy game where you could either:
1. Exploit your enemy's weaknesses and come up with overpowered combos to clear it at low level
2. Overwhelm it through brute force by grinding for levels first

I'll tell you what happened. That style of play became obsolete because in this day and age, the fights would be crowdsourced within hours, and the solutions to each boss would be widely available in a matter of days. Extreme and Savage content isn't mentally stimulating. It's a combination of rote memorization and practiced muscle memory. It's a matter of repeating the same actions over and over again until you can do them on autopilot. It's the exact opposite of mentally stimulating, and it doesn't have widespread appeal, which is why it's relegated to savage and extreme content. If SE wants to stop this game's unprecedented growth, they should follow your suggestion. Thankfully, I'm pretty sure they'll do the right thing and stay the current course.


It hasn't become that; it always was that. Video games in general are child's play. Rather than demanding that kiddie activities evolve into adult activities to suit your preferences, you're better off seeking out productive challenges at your school and/or workplace. When I read posts like these, I imagine someone standing on top of the jungle gym at the neighborhood playground protesting that it should be demolished to make way for a nightclub. If you don't like normal mode, then only do it on your way to unlocking savage. Please quit complaining that the rest of us are having our preferences met.

Oh come on, it wasn’t always that. Aurum Vale second boss didn’t used to have telegraphs, now it does. Dungeons in past expansions weren’t full of single pack only pulls, this expansion is. Jobs were never as simplified as they are now. Healers used to have multiple dots and things to actually upkeep, now they don’t. It was never always that. Your “preferences” come at the cost of other peoples enjoyment. What really should be happening is there being a middle ground for everyone so everyone can enjoy, but that isn’t happening. SE is only appeasing one side and not the other. Just look at the many people critiquing the devs for their recent job changes. Look at the over what is it? 300 pages of healer criticism because healer is objectively the least fun and engaging role in the game.

[Illmaeran]

MMOs that make the base content too difficult die because they can't sustain a large enough player base to cover development costs and make players feel like there's a thriving community. ("OMG this game only has 100,000 active players it must be trash I quit!")

With MSQ essentially required to progress and unlock all side content (hard or easy), the MSQ itself must remain easy.

You can't keep incrementally raising skill cap as the story progresses because not every player has the same skill potential (especially if there are physical limitations). Players tend to quit when they reach a roadblock to their skill level that prevents them from progressing farther.

There also has to be the desire to improve when those obstacles are met. Someone without that desire isn't going to rise to a challenge.

In the end, this is a game for entertainment purposes and not a self-improvement course. Look for it to be designed for those who want entertainment, not those who want self-improvement. If you're looking for a constant flow of increasingly harder challenges to overcome, this may not be the game for you.

Quoting for emphasis.

I'm one of those people who have a limitation and actually did leave the game because I couldn't get past an MSQ point no matter what I did. It wasn't until more than a year later with some recovery and PT that I was able to regain enough processing and reflex speed to get past that point. Even now I find myself having issues at times with mental processing speed and routinely eat mechanics for an amount of time that would horrify "git gud" players. The MSQ and Normal content need to remain easy enough to be challenging, but not painfully so, for the general public; including those with limitations.

I don't begrudge peoples' desires for a challenge. That's why they made EX, Savage, and Ultimate.



Considering duty boss difficulty/ease; yeah, the story builds them up to be very powerful, but it also builds the WoL up to be even more so. We're supposed to be this almighty hero that can defeat all challenges eventually. Don't forget, for a number of those, it's canon that we have help - the fights against the Big Bads in ShB come to mind.

[Ronduwil]

While I don't touch savage or extreme content most of the time due to the huge leap in difficulty (my fear of screwing things up, even after watching a guide), normal content should be NORMAL CONTENT!!! Not easy content.

"Easy" is subjective. After years of algebra, trigonometry, and calculus, arithmetic is easy for me. What sense would it make for me to complain that teaching arithmetic to first graders is a waste of time because they should have figured that easy content out in kindergarten? Different people find different activities easy. Many high school kids never go beyond rudimentary algebra, but they still go on to lead productive lives. We don't demand that they take basic calculus before finding gainful employment. Why would you want to hold players in a pay-to-play video game to higher standards than real life activities do?

Challenge the playerbase and it will improve. Keep handicapping them, and all you'll get are below average vanilla players. I hope Yoshi-P figures this out eventually.

I don't think you understand how averages work. You'll never get "all below average vanilla players." The average will always be average. Tomorrow's average player may be better than the average player of today, or they may be worse. The fact will remain, however, that they're average. I'm confused by what players hope to achieve by raising everyone else's standards for what constitutes average. It's like they won't be happy until everyone else considers them a bad player, which is the logical conclusion to this design strategy. Look at what WoW has become by adopting this philosophy. It's now a toxic cesspool of elitism with a player rating system that's literally built into the game. It's no longer even fun to play because every single run is packed with elitists who rage and drop group for every little mistake. In this game, on the other hand, players can screw up in the biggest way, and as long as they acknowledge and apologize for their mistakes, everyone's supportive. This is the type of game I prefer to play. I'm glad that Yoshi-P understands that.

[Ronduwil]

Oh come on, it wasn’t always that. Aurum Vale second boss didn’t used to have telegraphs, now it does.

It was always that, but it was poorly designed. You're complaining that the game's design improved. There's a difference between intelligence and ignorance. Wiping with a party of new players because the boss unexpectedly unleashed massive damage with no warning is not enjoyable, IMO. It wasn't enjoyable for me as a kid, and it's not enjoyable for me as an adult. I don't feel like a genius when I know to stand either really close or really far away from the boss just 'cause. Instead, I feel like I've just spent way too much time playing this game.

[SnowVix]

Stuns are interrupts. Can't think of any game I've played where a stun is not considered an interrupt.

Literally this game. Stuns and Interrupts are different game mechanics.

But when since early coil have I ever needed to Interupt anything??

Puppets' Bunker, giant crab add in Shisui, ghost add at the end of Ghost Barque (and if you don't interrupt that one you're actively screwing over everyone), scattered adds in other dungeons.

It's a skill that's absolutely useless in 99% of content.and in the small amount of content where an interrupt has been required shield bash or something usually does the job...

so you just ignore Interject because you've never had a WHM in a dungeon?

It's like how many healers don't even slot esuna on there bars these days. Because debunks either can't be cleansed at all. Or are cleansed a different way. Like a full heal cleanses dooms. Or they drop off in 4 seconds anyway.so by the time you finish your current glare / broil / whatever the debuff has dropped off anyway so pointless casting esuna.

tell me you've never played a healer without saying it.