the normal content is too easy

[Supersnow845]

Was it really a good balance, though? I mentioned this in I think the live letter thread but with this change they're cementing the MSQ as the base JRPG experience and that will allow them to expand the optional content with the normal MMO standards. The lines here have been a bit blurred in the past and it feels like that's where some conflict comes from.

Yes because they also simplified every facet of the game so that the MSQ was accessible to everyone, so now we have a job and encounter design system they spent 2 expansions working on that caters to the lowest common denominator so that the MSQ was accessible now they are devoting even more resources to making the MSQ even more accessible and we are still stuck with the horrid modern job an encounter design system

Do one or the other but both both because all it means is it leads to an actively worse experience for people who actually want to play this as an MMO

[TaleraRistain]

Yes because they also simplified every facet of the game so that the MSQ was accessible to everyone, so now we have a job and encounter design system they spent 2 expansions working on that caters to the lowest common denominator so that the MSQ was accessible now they are devoting even more resources to making the MSQ even more accessible and we are still stuck with the horrid modern job an encounter design system

Do one or the other but both both because all it means is it leads to an actively worse experience for people who actually want to play this as an MMO

I'm going to dispute the idea that job changes were a direct correlation to the MSQ. Encounters have changed from ARR to now to requiring a higher response time and more necessary mobility in the fight, along with having more mechanics that utilized the entire arena and triggers in unexpected areas like the sides. Having to try to maintain a strict rotation may have limited them in what mechanics they could introduce. I know as a white mage it would be a lot more challenging to support my party if I didn't have my lily abilities and they hadn't adjusted Assize. Especially in something like say Zodiark. Previous encounters I could manage with Medicas and Cures which made me a lot less mobile, because the encounter required less mobility.

We don't know either way for sure. I'm just presenting a different viewpoint. I think it will be helpful going forward if they start explaining changes more, which is something they said they will start doing in the most recent live letter.

[Supersnow845]

I'm going to dispute the idea that job changes were a direct correlation to the MSQ. Encounters have changed from ARR to now to requiring a higher response time and more necessary mobility in the fight, along with having more mechanics that utilized the entire arena and triggers in unexpected areas like the sides. Having to try to maintain a strict rotation may have limited them in what mechanics they could introduce. I know as a white mage it would be a lot more challenging to support my party if I didn't have my lily abilities and they hadn't adjusted Assize. Especially in something like say Zodiark. Previous encounters I could manage with Medicas and Cures which made me a lot less mobile, because the encounter required less mobility.

We don't know either way for sure. I'm just presenting a different viewpoint. I think it will be helpful going forward if they start explaining changes more, which is something they said they will start doing in the most recent live letter.

I don’t that’s necessarily true considering WHM was never less mobile than it was in ShB, more rigid rotations didn’t preclude more complex and different mechanics all it does is make it more punishing to mess them up, the obvious exception to this is ultimate which works better with modern design because of the amount of downtime not just ruining everyone’s rotation just because like it did in stormblood but that is a very small part of a much wider situation

Rotations should work around whatever they design not the other way around, it plays into the problem of the ranged tax and the stale nature of current arena and boss design as well

[TaleraRistain]

I don’t that’s necessarily true considering WHM was never less mobile than it was in ShB

As a WHM since ARR, I'm going to respectfully disagree with this point. I had easily mastered the sweet spot for movement on a cast so it would still go off before the lily system but I find that I am able to be much more fluidly mobile than the past. It's similar to when they removed Cleric Stance from being an actual stance. I could dps under old Cleric Stance. The change just made it a much more fluid experience.

[Supersnow845]

As a WHM since ARR, I'm going to respectfully disagree with this point. I had easily mastered the sweet spot for movement on a cast so it would still go off before the lily system but I find that I am able to be much more fluidly mobile than the past. It's similar to when they removed Cleric Stance from being an actual stance. I could dps under old Cleric Stance. The change just made it a much more fluid experience.

WHM just had more movement options in older content because DOT’s had a shorter refresh timer and we had 2 (not counting aero 3 since it had a cast timer) WHM’s one movement option in 5.x was dia’s refresh timer (outside of slide casting), WHM was incredibly non mobile in ShB, it’s why I wanted Dia reverted to aero’s shorter duration rather than this stupid 1.5 seconds on every healer that just ruined the use of lily’s

[TaleraRistain]

WHM just had more movement options in older content because DOT’s had a shorter refresh timer and we had 2 (not counting aero 3 since it had a cast timer) WHM’s one movement option in 5.x was dia’s refresh timer (outside of slide casting), WHM was incredibly non mobile in ShB, it’s why I wanted Dia reverted to aero’s shorter duration rather than this stupid 1.5 seconds on every healer that just ruined the use of lily’s

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Our experiences may be different. I don't overly worry about optimizing so maybe it's something that only manifests in that situation. But encounters and jobs can't just be designed only around the hardest content or the most optimized playstyle. I didn't feel non-mobile at all in ShB and I've felt much more mobile since the introduction of the lily system, once they fixed it. Prior to the MSQ revamps, when I played WHM on lower level alts I also felt mechanics kept me in place more. I haven't tried on WHM on them since the recent changes.

[Supersnow845]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Our experiences may be different. I don't overly worry about optimizing so maybe it's something that only manifests in that situation. But encounters and jobs can't just be designed only around the hardest content or the most optimized playstyle. I didn't feel non-mobile at all in ShB and I've felt much more mobile since the introduction of the lily system, once they fixed it. Prior to the MSQ revamps, when I played WHM on lower level alts I also felt mechanics kept me in place more. I haven't tried on WHM on them since the recent changes.

Oh yeah that’s a difference I’m coming from the perspective of “lily’s were a DPS loss in ShB so don’t use them” in which case WHM was a disaster

[vetch]

Well keep in mind, they're not up to revamping that part of the MSQ yet. If they stick with current trends, it will go to a solo instance or 4-man duty. They gave the end of ARR back some of its teeth with recent changes.

And next they're taking some away as well by nerfing Thornmarch, even though it's already easier than the new Ultima Weapon. I have no idea what they're thinking.

[Jirah]

I decided to test this theory, I gave my 3 year old nephew the controller of my PS4 and did a random roulette and compared the progress to somthing like Pokémon sword. He lost the battle because he kept switching back and forth and using growl, but cleared the instance!! (Also got a reported which was warranted, maybe I shouldn’t do this with pure strangers trapped in their chrome hamster wheel of monotony) the point is…it’s so easy a caveman can do it.

[RocciaSolida]

Why do you want the normal content to be harder? Just yesterday I did a Vanaspati (level 85 dungeon) run in roulette and got matched with a RPR that didn't use Enshroud once, it took us around 35 minutes to clear.
People give zero F's about doing even the bare minimum, imagine what would happen if the content was harder.
I'm all for making the normal content as braindead as possible.