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  1. #1
    Player
    Packetdancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,948
    Character
    Khit Amariyo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
    That's certainly an interpretation. One that, as a former healer main, is easily countered by both the dozens of "stop dumbing my job down" threads from people who do higher end content, and all the casual posts that I could sum up with "now that healers are boring 11111111111111111 jobs, they're the perfect level of engaging! Healing in this game is sooooooooo stressful! Thank you Square for neutering these jobs, they're so approachable now!"
    As a healer main, I am not in any way suggesting the current state of healing in this game is good. Believe me, I am painfully aware of how simplistic our jobs have gotten.

    I am saying that if we want to complain about the state of the game, I do not think that you can put the blame for all of the current state entirely on the "casual" audience, as some folks often seem to want to.

    Just because healers now aren't happy with the AST card system as it stands doesn't change the fact that folks—some of them the same folks complaining now—were also complaining that only the Balance was worth playing back in Stormblood, and those complaints about numerically optimal play with cards were not—so far as I can tell—from the "casual" side of the playerbase. The changes we've gotten may not be the ones we wanted, but I do think they're partly our own fault. I know if I were a game designer working on this game, the "well, they're going to turn every dungeon into a linear speed-run, no matter what we make" factor would absolutely begin to figure into my design considerations. After all, why bother spending time on puzzles and side-hallways and such if most of the playerbase will never do them? You could spend that time on other game elements instead.

    That's not the only reason, of course; making the MSQ and game more approachable almost certainly is a factor. I just don't think making things more approachable is the only factor in play here.
    (1)
    Last edited by Packetdancer; 08-15-2022 at 05:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Packetdancer
    The healer main's struggle for pants is both real, and unending. Be strong, sister. #GiveUsMorePants2k20 #HealersNotRevealers #RandomOtherSleepDeprivedHashtagsHere
    I aim to make my posts engaging and entertaining, even when you might not agree with me. And failing that, I'll just be very, VERY wordy.

  2. #2
    Player
    Semirhage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Nemene Damendar
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Packetdancer View Post
    As a healer main, I am not in any way suggesting the current state of healing in this game is good. Believe me, I am painfully aware of how simplistic our jobs have gotten.

    I am saying that if we want to complain about the state of the game, I do not think that you can put the blame for all of the current state entirely on the "casual" audience, as some folks often seem to want to.

    Just because healers now aren't happy with the AST card system as it stands doesn't change the fact that folks—some of them the same folks complaining now—were also complaining that only the Balance was worth playing back in Stormblood, and those complaints about numerically optimal play with cards were not—so far as I can tell—from the "casual" side of the playerbase. The changes we've gotten may not be the ones we wanted, but I do think they're partly our own fault. I know if I were a game designer working on this game, the "well, they're going to turn every dungeon into a linear speed-run, no matter what we make" factor would absolutely begin to figure into my design considerations. After all, why bother spending time on puzzles and side-hallways and such if most of the playerbase will never do them? You could spend that time on other game elements instead.

    That's not the only reason, of course; making the MSQ and game more approachable almost certainly is a factor. I just don't think making things more approachable is the only factor in play here.
    Well yes. The other fairly obvious major factor is Square. They have a manager, two job designers, and an intern working on the ever-increasing number of jobs we have available. Not a single one of them mains a healer. They have neither the time nor the expertise to take a critique about counterintuitive job design and work through it thoughtfully; if the community complains about something, just bash it with the easy hammer until it's unrecognizable but quick to design.

    The casual community isn't exactly responsible for getting the jobs to where they are at the moment. They're just rejoicing that they got here; Square's incompetence steered us this way.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Sunhwapark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    517
    Character
    Dear Boy
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Packetdancer View Post
    The changes we've gotten may not be the ones we wanted, but I do think they're partly our own fault.
    Sorry, but I refuse to take any responsibility for WHM's early lily era in Stormblood.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    Packetdancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Gridania
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    1,948
    Character
    Khit Amariyo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunhwapark View Post
    Sorry, but I refuse to take any responsibility for WHM's early lily era in Stormblood.
    I mean... fair? I suspect the job designer or designers who came up with that—and anyone who approved it—would prefer not to take responsibility for that situation either.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Packetdancer
    The healer main's struggle for pants is both real, and unending. Be strong, sister. #GiveUsMorePants2k20 #HealersNotRevealers #RandomOtherSleepDeprivedHashtagsHere
    I aim to make my posts engaging and entertaining, even when you might not agree with me. And failing that, I'll just be very, VERY wordy.

  5. #5
    Player
    Sunhwapark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    517
    Character
    Dear Boy
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Packetdancer View Post
    I mean... fair? I suspect the job designer or designers who came up with that—and anyone who approved it—would prefer not to take responsibility for that situation either.
    True, and I do agree with what you said in your other post that the low difficulty for content makes it more approachable to the general userbase.
    I do like that we can run most dungeons without it being extremely difficult, as that's frustrating but also when dungeons are thrown into roulettes it's less problematic and reduces the amount of times you queue into content only to have people leave instantly upon entering because it's content they don't wanna run due to the fact that it can either be a very smooth and fast run, or take forever and be a slugfest (like Aurum Vale/Vault/Amdapor).

    I think I'd just want the harder content to be difficult, not really worried about the storymode difficulty level content but I'm not opposed to it being made a bit more engaging... somehow.
    (0)