the normal content is too easy

[Raikai]

What I feel is that in normal mode difficulties - on learning stages at least - the challenge is mostly upon the healer's shoulders.

If you get average, and under, healers, bad pugs might need a few tries.

[StriderShinryu]

So yeah, I guess I do sound defeatist - but it's really very hard not to feel that way when there are two or three threads here full of players saying that the game is too easy, and implying that there is no excuse for being bad at the game.

It's really not worth taking the opinion of the forum on much of anything at this point. If you believe the thrust of the general forum opinion for the last few months, the game is a smoking crater of terribleness that has only been getting worse for at least 5 years. And you'd get the feeling that YoshiP and team literally had their friends and family hostage, and were somehow forcing them to keep playing and paying for the game regardless of how absolutely terribly awful and bad the game is (and has been for years).

Keep enjoying the game as you are.

[WildTamarind]

@Xirean

Except these are not seperate concepts. Trust are consistently easier by way of removing human error to just a factor of one instead of 4. So they already serve the purpose we are arguing for. We just want the other half to get implemented and that is that we want an msq that isnt braindead especially lower level content. Which I need to remind everyone was not by design. Its a side effect of end game dps balancing.

@Ronduwil

Dont be ridiculous. Non telegraph and randomness doesnt automaticaly equal savage or extreme especially since those hardcore modes still have telegraphes and are non random. The OP was just using those as examples on how to achieve the added dofficulty he wants. It says nothing about making them savage level. My own opinion is i just want higher hp pool for bosses to match power creep or maybe nerf ilvl or something.


Also as a whole I feel the side that wants the game to be stupid easy are belittling unskilled players. You know how you get skilled? A good difficulty curve. Thats how. This game is 0 to 1000.

[WildTamarind]

@Carin-Eri

I dont speak for everyone here but im talking about dungeons and trials. Not the solo msq. The solo msq can be difficult. I dont know how far you are in the story but one in Endwalker was pretty tense imo. So dont feel bad on these.

This is why I stress on the game havin a good difficulty curve. It used to have one but its gone. A good difficulty curve can turn a player who is struggling into improving their skills. You probaly could have benefited with one.

[TaleraRistain]

Except these are not seperate concepts. Trust are consistently easier by way of removing human error to just a factor of one instead of 4. So they already serve the purpose we are arguing for. We just want the other half to get implemented and that is that we want an msq that isnt braindead especially lower level content. Which I need to remind everyone was not by design. Its a side effect of end game dps balancing.

So say for sake of argument that this happens. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and push for it to get harder and it does. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and they push for it to get harder and it does.

Where is it going to end once the developers start deciding to go down this path?

[KizuyaKatogami]

So in what sense are you saying that FFXIV's content is streamlined? To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.

I mean, besides the fact that Yoshi P himself stated that the dungeons have been streamlined? Let’s compare jobs from HW to SB to ShB and now to EW. You can see the gradual downward trend of them being streamlined and simplified. Then look at the loss of a number of dungeons, and yoshi p going on record saying he wanted dungeons to be streamlined in EW. Now we get to EW and we have constant forced single pulls in nearly if not every single dungeon. It’s not hard to see it’s gotten streamlined over the years and especially in EW. I mean we can even just look at healers, where they lost all multiple dots and dps spells.

So say for sake of argument that this happens. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and push for it to get harder and it does. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and they push for it to get harder and it does.

Where is it going to end once the developers start deciding to go down this path?

I mean this can go both ways. I could ask where is the simplification and streamlining going to end? The fact is it hasnt, its gotten worse and worse each expansion, and somehow this is okay.

[AnotherPerson]

So say for sake of argument that this happens. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and push for it to get harder and it does. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and they push for it to get harder and it does.

Where is it going to end once the developers start deciding to go down this path?

But we're going down this path right now, but in the opposite way. The accessibility has been getting to the point that the players who originally play these roles feel alienated due to these changes for the sake of "accessibility". Accessibility is good, but there is a limit before it starts alienating others as well. We're past that point with healers who left in droves during SHB and Endwalker due to the 2 button DoT and Nuke DPS gameplay for the sake of making healer gameplay easier, and it's getting even worse because tanks can now heal themselves to the point healers can just not exist in Lv 90 Dungeons. I felt more importance healing in a Lv 41 dungeon than a level 90 one, and that should speak volumes about the state of gameplay right now.

Now it's slowly happening to Samurai now too (with Kaiten removal, the Kenki gauge is just for Shinten and only Shinten). Now you can apply this concept to normal content as well because there's less things to keep track of and demand your attention in a boss fight. Where do you stop here then?

Accessibility is good, but there needs to be a balance, and a cutoff point. WoW has went to the extreme with hardcore raiding, but FFXIV is starting to head down to the path of child's play casual rather than just casual friendly.

[Banriikku]

The game need a difficulty curve and tutorial's at the moment both are missing and its showing. ALso the content in normal is so simple and without thought that somtimes when devs decide "this encounter needs to be spicy" a big part of the player base is shocked in for a rude awakeinging. The second trial for example, many people complaint about it. For me this shows the problem, instead of a steadly increasing difficulty, we got "there you go all this fights are idiot proof but hey this one is not". Thats were the problem is rooted. Try and ask a new tank please stop this cast of the boss or a dps please focus adds + dodge mechanics or a simple dispel from the healers. Then i meet player's that have with lvl 90 no clue about: line attack marker, gathering marker, flare marker or line/aoe tank buster marker. Even worse some bosses use "animation" to telegraph their mechanics.

First of all why are these mechanics not in a tutorial, second why is not normal for trash or bosses on normal to teach this on a regular basis. Why are some old dungeons way more difficult then new ones ? Simple, the dev's assume the normal player is a idiot with a crayon addiction. To change this, trash need to be teaching and bosses need a theme that can be recongnized and as the level increases the themed bosses will get more to their array of mechanics up to the max level of the content segment where the boss has its maximum potential. If you use this in a expansion you teach your players step by step the mechanics and how to behave in a fight. At the end is boils down to: dear dev's please stop assume all your player are idiots.

[hagare]

So say for sake of argument that this happens. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and push for it to get harder and it does. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and they push for it to get harder and it does.

Where is it going to end once the developers start deciding to go down this path?

when it's a souls game xD
Seriously though, normal content will always be designed for the average skill of the playerbase.

[TaleraRistain]

But we're going down this path right now, but in the opposite way. The accessibility has been getting to the point that the players who originally play these roles feel alienated due to these changes for the sake of "accessibility". Accessibility is good, but there is a limit before it starts alienating others as well. We're past that point with healers who left in droves during SHB and Endwalker due to the 2 button DoT and Nuke DPS gameplay for the sake of making healer gameplay easier, and it's getting even worse because tanks can now heal themselves to the point healers can just not exist in Lv 90 Dungeons. I felt more importance healing in a Lv 41 dungeon than a level 90 one, and that should speak volumes about the state of gameplay right now.

Now it's slowly happening to Samurai now too (with Kaiten removal, the Kenki gauge is just for Shinten and only Shinten). Now you can apply this concept to normal content as well because there's less things to keep track of and demand your attention in a boss fight. Where do you stop here then?

Accessibility is good, but there needs to be a balance, and a cutoff point. WoW has went to the extreme with hardcore raiding, but FFXIV is starting to head down to the path of child's play casual rather than just casual friendly.

It's definitely a tricky balance. For the moment, it appears to be working for them. It could certainly bite them in the behind at some future point. But they will assuredly kill their game if they progressively raise a bar and make the playerbase who can reach that smaller and smaller.