the normal content is too easy

[OdinelStarrei]

Count me as one of those players who played for the story above all else. And yeah, I found it hard. And that's difficult to admit in a thread full of forumites implying that bad players shouldn't be bad and don't deserve to play the game.
Partly due to my lacking performance at least, I have no intention of going anywhere near anything above 'Normal' level content.

Why are you so self-defeating? Why is there a need to denigrate people and put words in their mouth? There is no need to strawman and reduce down some fairly valid opinions to "wow basement dwellers trying to gatekeep lmao" No one is saying bad players don't deserve to play the game, many people are blaming SQUARE ENIX for not instating proper tutorials, for having completely lopsided difficulty curves, no incentive for improvement, an atrocious leveling experience in both content and the jobs themselves, the total dissolution of the midcore, and for design decisions that don't seem to benefit ANYONE. If you want to draw the ire of anyone around here or in XIV in general, you have to have a selfish, overinflated ego combined with irrelevant or incorrect information, not "I'm just not very good at pressing buttons." Or be a "toxic raider elitist forumite", I guess.

You know what I'm here for? FFXIV, in it's entirety. I will consume any amount of content this game has to offer, because I love it, and believe most of it has value, even if some of it isn't exactly perfect, because I think the point of a theme park MMO is to have multiple types of content for multiple types of people. There was no problem with having dungeon/MSQ content be tuned the way it is in Heavensward/Stormblood, because every job had a skill ceiling that was actually worth something that gave opportunity for player growth. Every expansion since, they keep removing actions, they remove designs and systems, they dumb down the things that brought identity and uniqueness to each and every job to the point of irrelevance, and now, instead of participating in unengaging content with a engaging job that gives me the opportunity to have fun in even the most casual of content, Square Enix has dropped the ceiling of the entire game on the heads of playerbase, regardless of where you stood on the spectrum. I used to play jobs with mid-40 casts per minute, with variable timers. Now I'm lucky to reach high 30s as I mash my head into the same builder spender, 2 min burst window with zero variations that comprises the entire combat suite. Won't even go into the total lobotomy that has happened to the support role.

I can only play a fleshed-out, long term story experience ONE time every two years, over the course of maybe two weeks. The experience of actually playing XIV long-term compromises of much more of the overall play experience, and that long-term runway of gameplay, with a suitable skill ceiling, should be accommodated for.

This is probably why I've lost almost all my XIV friends from Heavensward. The game is boring to play. I have never played XIV LESS than I do right now.

You can keep your easy dungeons, and your easy MSQ, and your lack of consequences for any mistake or shortcoming or disability you may have, while also having significant developer resources allocated to the expansion of the Trust system. That's the correct way to develop, and I support that 100%. It doesn't affect me, we have different lanes. But I'd like my skill ceiling to return, because proper skill expression makes even the most braindead content fun, and prevents a spiraling dead end in your most dedicated players, the ones who champion the game the most. As long as the floor remains low for accessibility, it gives a solid middle ground for everyone, like it was on the path to becoming in Stormblood before Shadowbringers gutted the entire game. At this rate, every job is going to devolve into the same grey, tasteless mush.

If people being bad is accepted, people should also accept that people are allowed to be good and want more from their play experience even in mandatory content. We don't need to be in permanent conflict 24/7, those are not conflicting ideals, but SE seems determined to make the gameplay experience for one side totally miserable, just like they did in Heavensward.

[Lauront]

*snip*

This. There is a marked absence of flexibility in the thinking of some here. The fact that the Trust system, as it is currently implemented, is not designed to accommodate those seeking an easier experience does not preclude it from being tweaked to achieve that, which is what is being suggested and I'd say being deliberately disregarded. Between that and dumbing down normal MSQ content, the former is my preferred option. If some people want baby level difficulty, use a system being widely deployed across older and current dungeons and eventually trials too to deliver that option. It does nothing to stop people from teaming up, and use party chat to communicate if they're apprehensive about mechanics or run it with friends... part and parcel of the 'social' experience, which does not require keeping normal content at trivial levels of difficulty.

[Xirean]

This. There is a marked absence of flexibility in the thinking of some here. The fact that the Trust system, as it is currently implemented, is not designed to accommodate those seeking an easier experience does not preclude it from being tweaked to achieve that, which is what is being suggested and I'd say being deliberately disregarded. Between that and dumbing down normal MSQ content, the former is my preferred option. If some people want baby level difficulty, use a system being widely deployed across older and current dungeons and eventually trials too to deliver that option. It does nothing to stop people from teaming up, and use party chat to communicate if they're apprehensive about mechanics or run it with friends... part and parcel of the 'social' experience, which does not require keeping normal content at trivial levels of difficulty.

Heavily disagree. If people want to use trusts then that is a choice to play solo, NOT a difficulty choice. The two are separate concepts.

[WildTamarind]

@Xirean

Except these are not seperate concepts. Trust are consistently easier by way of removing human error to just a factor of one instead of 4. So they already serve the purpose we are arguing for. We just want the other half to get implemented and that is that we want an msq that isnt braindead especially lower level content. Which I need to remind everyone was not by design. Its a side effect of end game dps balancing.

@Ronduwil

Dont be ridiculous. Non telegraph and randomness doesnt automaticaly equal savage or extreme especially since those hardcore modes still have telegraphes and are non random. The OP was just using those as examples on how to achieve the added dofficulty he wants. It says nothing about making them savage level. My own opinion is i just want higher hp pool for bosses to match power creep or maybe nerf ilvl or something.


Also as a whole I feel the side that wants the game to be stupid easy are belittling unskilled players. You know how you get skilled? A good difficulty curve. Thats how. This game is 0 to 1000.

[TaleraRistain]

Except these are not seperate concepts. Trust are consistently easier by way of removing human error to just a factor of one instead of 4. So they already serve the purpose we are arguing for. We just want the other half to get implemented and that is that we want an msq that isnt braindead especially lower level content. Which I need to remind everyone was not by design. Its a side effect of end game dps balancing.

So say for sake of argument that this happens. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and push for it to get harder and it does. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and they push for it to get harder and it does.

Where is it going to end once the developers start deciding to go down this path?

[AnotherPerson]

So say for sake of argument that this happens. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and push for it to get harder and it does. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and they push for it to get harder and it does.

Where is it going to end once the developers start deciding to go down this path?

But we're going down this path right now, but in the opposite way. The accessibility has been getting to the point that the players who originally play these roles feel alienated due to these changes for the sake of "accessibility". Accessibility is good, but there is a limit before it starts alienating others as well. We're past that point with healers who left in droves during SHB and Endwalker due to the 2 button DoT and Nuke DPS gameplay for the sake of making healer gameplay easier, and it's getting even worse because tanks can now heal themselves to the point healers can just not exist in Lv 90 Dungeons. I felt more importance healing in a Lv 41 dungeon than a level 90 one, and that should speak volumes about the state of gameplay right now.

Now it's slowly happening to Samurai now too (with Kaiten removal, the Kenki gauge is just for Shinten and only Shinten). Now you can apply this concept to normal content as well because there's less things to keep track of and demand your attention in a boss fight. Where do you stop here then?

Accessibility is good, but there needs to be a balance, and a cutoff point. WoW has went to the extreme with hardcore raiding, but FFXIV is starting to head down to the path of child's play casual rather than just casual friendly.

[TaleraRistain]

But we're going down this path right now, but in the opposite way. The accessibility has been getting to the point that the players who originally play these roles feel alienated due to these changes for the sake of "accessibility". Accessibility is good, but there is a limit before it starts alienating others as well. We're past that point with healers who left in droves during SHB and Endwalker due to the 2 button DoT and Nuke DPS gameplay for the sake of making healer gameplay easier, and it's getting even worse because tanks can now heal themselves to the point healers can just not exist in Lv 90 Dungeons. I felt more importance healing in a Lv 41 dungeon than a level 90 one, and that should speak volumes about the state of gameplay right now.

Now it's slowly happening to Samurai now too (with Kaiten removal, the Kenki gauge is just for Shinten and only Shinten). Now you can apply this concept to normal content as well because there's less things to keep track of and demand your attention in a boss fight. Where do you stop here then?

Accessibility is good, but there needs to be a balance, and a cutoff point. WoW has went to the extreme with hardcore raiding, but FFXIV is starting to head down to the path of child's play casual rather than just casual friendly.

It's definitely a tricky balance. For the moment, it appears to be working for them. It could certainly bite them in the behind at some future point. But they will assuredly kill their game if they progressively raise a bar and make the playerbase who can reach that smaller and smaller.

[hagare]

So say for sake of argument that this happens. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and push for it to get harder and it does. And then other players still think it's braindead and they complain they're bored and they push for it to get harder and it does.

Where is it going to end once the developers start deciding to go down this path?

when it's a souls game xD
Seriously though, normal content will always be designed for the average skill of the playerbase.

[WildTamarind]

@Talera

Sorry but I dont entertain slipperyslopes. Even if it were possible the scenerio youve listed then we would complain about the game being too hard. But just because there might exist a future problem doesnt mean we can ignore the current one.

[LeonKeyh]

@Talera

Sorry but I dont entertain slipperyslopes. Even if it were possible the scenerio youve listed then we would complain about the game being too hard. But just because there might exist a future problem doesnt mean we can ignore the current one.

Not only that, but they would likely be smart enough to slow/stop whenever they see it affecting subs; It's a dial like any other. Tweak the dial a little bit, see how many "top players" you keep and how many "bottom of the barrel" players stick around. Do it again until the people leaving is the same as or more than the people you hold onto and there's the sweet spot.

It's surely what they're doing now with lowering the difficulty. They're seeing complaints from people about it being "too easy" but on the flip side seeing people stick around.