Thread: On the proposed changes to Ninja in 6.1

I agree 100%. So many people are saying, don't worry, the numbers will hold up, we'll be less reliant on party members for rdps, and so on and so forth. It could be handsdown the most broken job in the game, but if it's not fun, why bother.

Originally Posted by kackal_Jackal

TLDR:
- Whether NIN remains in the meta / how it will perform is irrelevant right now.
- Removing our 1m raid buff will hurt the feel of the game for other classes, NOT just NIN. Particularly raiders who enjoy playing into Trick every minute.
- Jobs shouldn't be homogenized, with the only difference being their buff type & rotation. NIN remained unique with it's 1m, and with the removal of its 1m raid buff, it is similar to both DRG or MNK.
- It isn't just NINs who are upset about this change. A lot of other jobs LOVE the 1m raid buff.
- The change doesn't make sense when 1m raid buff already aligns with the 2m raid buffs.

I think this is a really succinct way of putting it. I 100% agree with the points stated here.


Trick is the cornerstone of the job. It's very easy to see how the entire kit was designed around maximising your one-minute Trick windows -- and also very easy to see how keeping it as a party buff rewards other jobs for playing into it. Without Trick, there is *nothing* to play into between two minute windows.


When I play a team game, I want to play with my team. I chose Ninja specifically because of its party buffs -- and fell in love with the job because of how it all worked together.
There's something heartbreaking about losing that 1min synergy with other jobs.

Originally Posted by kackal_Jackal

snip.

You know better than that. Samurai ain’t demonstrating skill expression by lining up their off minute burst with TA. You are correct on Reaper and Dark, and I personally enjoy messing with my off minute enshroud when playing with ninjas. I don’t particularly enjoy you getting the credit for it though, but that’s not on you or SE.

Your justification is the only one that isn’t screeching. However, I do find it hard to believe that you actually want to rely so heavily on your party to maximize TA. It’s a weak design at this point I’m the game, and if people truly do enjoy working around that window (three jobs that can really maximize it: war, reaper, and dark) then they could merely weaken TAs contribution while giving it back to ninja in the form of personal DPS.

Originally Posted by Kazimere

You know better than that. Samurai ain’t demonstrating skill expression by lining up their off minute burst with TA. You are correct on Reaper and Dark, and I personally enjoy messing with my off minute enshroud when playing with ninjas. I don’t particularly enjoy you getting the credit for it though, but that’s not on you or SE.

Your justification is the only one that isn’t screeching. However, I do find it hard to believe that you actually want to rely so heavily on your party to maximize TA. It’s a weak design at this point I’m the game, and if people truly do enjoy working around that window (three jobs that can really maximize it: war, reaper, and dark) then they could merely weaken TAs contribution while giving it back to ninja in the form of personal DPS.

No, I'm sorry, but you're wrong about that. SAM and NIN are an incredible pair if and only if the SAM knows how to play their job. Such as being able to properly loop, maintain uptime to do so, and have the ability to dump shintens. The job is far more forgiving than it was in SHB but there are still plenty of SAMs who do not play into buffs correctly. I've seen huge swings between different SAMs I play with, RNG taken out of the equation.

If you really want to utilize Trick to boost the raid team's DPS (good example are speedrunners), there are comps they will bring to do so. And this applies for EVERY raid buff, it's not TA exclusive lol. If you have a raid buff, you want to cater your party to maximize it, and that'll remain true regardless if NIN has a 1m or 2m buff. But WAR and RPR are neither of those when it comes to maximizing Trick Attack. Albeit they can intentionally align, does not mean they do well. All it takes is looking at top speed logs that have a NIN to figure out their ideal comp.

I'm done talking about this though because it has nothing to do with my original point.

Originally Posted by Kazimere

You know better than that. Samurai ain’t demonstrating skill expression by lining up their off minute burst with TA. You are correct on Reaper and Dark, and I personally enjoy messing with my off minute enshroud when playing with ninjas. I don’t particularly enjoy you getting the credit for it though, but that’s not on you or SE.

Your justification is the only one that isn’t screeching. However, I do find it hard to believe that you actually want to rely so heavily on your party to maximize TA. It’s a weak design at this point I’m the game, and if people truly do enjoy working around that window (three jobs that can really maximize it: war, reaper, and dark) then they could merely weaken TAs contribution while giving it back to ninja in the form of personal DPS.

Why is your arguement always to do with logging? If ninja players enjoy having their having their contribution based on other party member that's the ninja players prerogative. If they're fine with that design philosophy who are you to say it's weak design.

Originally Posted by dadong

Why is your arguement always to do with logging? If ninja players enjoy having their having their contribution based on other party member that's the ninja players prerogative. If they're fine with that design philosophy who are you to say it's weak design.

Of all the ninja players, how many do you think actually enjoy having so much of their contribution be reliant on their group? It's not a logging issue. Logging just highlights the issue for all to see. The developers balance around this contribution, and they damn sure aren't going to balance around a crap group bringing the buffer down.

Are you actually opposed to keeping TA at 60s, weakening its contribution, while giving it back to the ninja's personal DPS?

Originally Posted by Kazimere

Are you actually opposed to keeping TA at 60s, weakening its contribution, while giving it back to the ninja's personal DPS?

I am vehemently opposed to this, yes. Part of why I enjoy playing Ninja is that I buff my party once a minute. The value I bring goes beyond my personal DPS. If I wanted to play a job with a larger focus on personal DPS, there are plenty for me to choose from. However, that's not what I want, so I choose to play Ninja.


Quite frankly, what slice of the pie equates to my 'contribution' is of little concern to me, nor how it shakes out. That's a numbers concern, and I'm not concerned about numbers.


What I care about is being able to buff my party on the minute every minute, providing the potential for optimisation for my teammates with odd-minute burst.

i enjoy having my contribution be reliant on the group. We just like the 1 minute buff

Originally Posted by Kazimere

Of all the ninja players, how many do you think actually enjoy having so much of their contribution be reliant on their group? It's not a logging issue. Logging just highlights the issue for all to see. The developers balance around this contribution, and they damn sure aren't going to balance around a crap group bringing the buffer down.

Are you actually opposed to keeping TA at 60s, weakening its contribution, while giving it back to the ninja's personal DPS?

yes, If i wanted to play a adps job I would play a adps job. And given the blacklash from the changes from EU, NA, and JP it seems to be that the Majority of ninja players want to keep trick at 60 seconds balance or not.